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Visualise the structure of a spreadsheet

slateforexcel.com

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Re: Visualise the structure of a spreadsheet

#51

Interesting. As I understand it, you use a spreadsheet as input and then create the data flow diagram. I certainly see how seeing the data flow diagram means better clarity and error-finding. So here is a question for you? What if we take it a step further and have users actually entered their complex spreadsheets in a tidy graphical data flow diagram which mapped back?

The problem is users like the presentation of a spreadsheet. So far, there seems to have been no evidence of this changing.

My question is why do they like it? My assertion would be because it is visual in how they want it. They are usually less interested in the complicated "how do I get this value" than they are "I want a value to be here." That is, even if it is wrong, they are more interested in seeing the data laid out in a way they specify than they are coming up with a data flow analysis of what they did.

And, really, I'm not sure this is that surprising. Having a tool show you how all of the data is linked together certainly can make for a good understanding of how the data was calculated. May even help fix mistakes. However, the table of data view of the spreadsheet is ultimately what you want. Just with no mistakes.

Re: Visualise the structure of a spreadsheet

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe one day...

You are just a small step away from the concepts in Subtext: http://www.subtext-lang.org I highly recommend watching the screencasts, especially the demo: http://www.subtext-lang.org/demo1.html I have wanted a graphical interface for functional programming in environments like Excel for a long time. In my experience, most of the pseudo-programming that has dominated software engineering (object-oriented/MVC/message-b…

That Subtext screencast is fascinating - thanks for posting the link. Reminds me of the Bret Victor talks.

I agree with your other points - this is something I'd love to build (or see built). But do you think it could displace Excel?

Re: Visualise the structure of a spreadsheet

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe one day...

You are just a small step away from the concepts in Subtext: http://www.subtext-lang.org I highly recommend watching the screencasts, especially the demo: http://www.subtext-lang.org/demo1.html I have wanted a graphical interface for functional programming in environments like Excel for a long time. In my experience, most of the pseudo-programming that has dominated software engineering (object-oriented/MVC/message-b…

Interesting stuff. Yeah whats great about excel is there is zero learning needed to get started. Anyone can start typing numbers in the cells then move on to more complex tasks. The problem is, although each step towards building a model in Excel is quite simple the end results can be very unwieldy.

Re: Visualise the structure of a spreadsheet

#56
post #14

Any idea of the price ?

We haven't really decided yet. What would businesses be willing to spend?

Don't just make a price up. Buy Strategy and Tactics of Pricing immediately, it's a relatively short textbook that will teach you what you need to know.

The headline here is that you're not selling to consumers. You are selling to businesses; if you can demonstrate value then you can ask for a generous fraction of it in your price. With some smart segmentation you can divide the market into a few different groups, some of whom are rare but prepared to pay much more, others who are more common but only prepared to pay less.

Re: Visualise the structure of a spreadsheet

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are just a small step away from the concepts in Subtext: http://www.subtext-lang.org I highly recommend watching the screencasts, especially the demo: http://www.subtext-lang.org/demo1.html I have wanted a graphical interface for functional programming in environments like Excel for a long time. In my experience, most of the pseudo-programming that has dominated software engineering (object-oriented/MVC/message-b…

That Subtext screencast is fascinating - thanks for posting the link. Reminds me of the Bret Victor talks. I agree with your other points - this is something I'd love to build (or see built). But do you think it could displace Excel?

I'm not sure if anything will displace Excel (or spreadsheets in general).

But what I'd like to see is a generalization beyond columns/rows/sheets for relating data of various dimensions. The underlying data type would probably be a list (so lisp) but have options to enable order, array access, key->value access, etc. Cell references would work more like in programming languages and operate over ranges that aren't just two dimensional.

So a spreadsheet would be a subset of this. So a set of columns with array access, a set of rows with array access, a notation like column-row for cell references, and all of the operators like $ for absolute references, etc.

I guess the underlying data structure could be a relational database but I'd prefer something human-readable like JSON with a thin notation over it for expressing relationships between structure members. You could use something like the Subtext editor to work on it but maybe if the syntax was easy enough you could write it manually.

I think the real power of this would be if relationships could be executables (like how Excel macros work but with stdin/stdout/stderr and black box scripts written in any language). Imagine being able to call sed/awk or really high level tools like Go/Erlang and Matlab/Octave per-cell the way we use SUM in Excel..

Re: Visualise the structure of a spreadsheet

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Subtext screencast is fascinating - thanks for posting the link. Reminds me of the Bret Victor talks. I agree with your other points - this is something I'd love to build (or see built). But do you think it could displace Excel?

I'm not sure if anything will displace Excel (or spreadsheets in general). But what I'd like to see is a generalization beyond columns/rows/sheets for relating data of various dimensions. The underlying data type would probably be a list (so lisp) but have options to enable order, array access, key->value access, etc. Cell references would work more like in programming languages and operate over ranges that aren't ju…

I actually worked on this exact solution a few months ago.

I translated excel into a javascript data structure, translating the formulas into javascript functions. The data structure could be saved to json, and them reloaded back into javascript. The cool thing is that changing a value (a2 = 3) automatically updates dependent values in the rest of the data structure. The data structure can be referenced much like the spreadsheet - it is a tree with branches for pages, rows, columns. There is a simple faster csv like API that makes it easy to go page by page, row by row. Also, cells can be looked up explicitly.

The code is proprietary, which is a shame. It was written as a library to quickly reverse engineer large, complex xlsx files. The trick in making it work is just having the right data structure.

Sorry if I am rambling or any misspellings. I am very sick right now, drowsy from medication, and trying to type thus on my phone.

Re: Visualise the structure of a spreadsheet

#59
An Excel to LabVIEW converter. ;-)

It seems like a really cool idea. For better or worse, Excel has emerged as the de facto "programming" tool for small scale computation and database tasks. It's an annoyance that you can't see your entire program at once, especially for checking correctness, finding bugs, and understanding someone else's work.

Re: Visualise the structure of a spreadsheet

#60
post #47

Oh good. An autoplaying YouTube video with audio. closes tab

OK I've disabled the autoplay again. I was just trying to get people to watch the video.

Oh don't you dare! Run an a/b test first, before you disable autoplay. If autoplay gets more signups then keep it. You're not here to be our friend and drink tea, you're running a business.

From a design point of view, I LOVE your desaturated forest look with the logo. It's all very memorable

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