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Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#161

Post by bjourne »

bad_user wrote: post #83
cromwellian wrote: post #24

Most of the examples of Google closed apps that are not part of the AOSP release are in fact apps that are based off of Google data-center services. Would it really help Samsung if the source to the Gmail app was open? Since Google controls the server side, and the client-server protocol, it limits the amount of innovation they can do. The web equivalent would be like claiming that Chrome OS isn't open because the so…

You're partly right, but in regards to the Gmail app, what I don't like about Android is that it doesn't come with a good email client that's not GMail. Android's GMail client is very polished and there's not much in it that's specific to Gmail, it could be a generic email client that works with POP3/IMAP/SMTP and other standards as well. The experience of users that aren't into Android's own services do suffer. But…

> Android's GMail client is very polished and there's not much in it that's specific to Gmail, it could be a generic email client that works with POP3/IMAP/SMTP and other standards as well. The experience of users that aren't into Android's own services do suffer.

GMail uses a proprietary protocol that is decidedly not imap. It has features like colorized labels and inbox prioritizing that just isn't present in imap. Furthermore it has completely different performance characteristics (e.g it is much faster) than what imap email can provide. No one seem to have any details on exactly what the protocol is or how it works. They definitely seem to not want any third party clients accessing gmail though. Otherwise they would have published a protocol specification a long time ago.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#162

Post by bad_user »

r0h1n wrote: post #143
bad_user wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Play Services are not (currently) required for developing and running apps, unless those apps integrate with Google's services, like Google Accounts and Google Maps. Of course nearly every Google App will break if you disable it, since every Google App is proprietary and Google's Play Services is their common framework. The question is - do third-party apps break if you disable Google Play Services? And the an…

> And this is a pain, given that many apps these days (Facebook, Twitter) want to get your current city... Them wanting, I can understand. But why should you give them that?

Because currently it isn't optional, which is a flaw in Android's permissions system that sucks.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#163

Post by throwawaykf »

sbuk wrote: post #150
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti trust is the legislation policing monopolies, at least in the US, and it is such legislation which I consider bunk.

Antitrust laws exist to enable greater competition by stopping businesses behaving in an anticompetative manner. They don't necessarily exist for "policing monoploies" anywhere in the world. > "and it is such legislation which I consider bunk" Why? Don't you think that Microsoft should have been reprimanded over their abuse of the OS market to gain control of the browser market? Or is it because it's being held over…

To be fair, Microsoft also created a browser that, for its time, is pretty widely accepted (even around here!) as being much better than the Netscape counterpart. So while they did throw their weight around, it's not clear that their browser dominance was purely because of their OS monopoly. There were many other ways that Microsoft was leveraging its monopoly which deserved antitrust scrutiny, but I think bundling a browser was the wrong thing to be prosecuted for.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#164

Post by arikrak »

Sometimes businesses take measures to increase profits at the expense of their users. However, preventing fragmentation of Android seems to be both in both Google's interests and the users. Only certain competitors could mind. Also, why should Google do all the work of creating an operating system and not get anything in return?

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#165

Post by gbl08ma »

innino wrote: post #137
coopdog wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will only buy / recommend nexus phones. Knowing that the phone will be updated quickly and for a long time is worth a premium, rather than being a cash in strat for Google.

my impression of nexus devices is that you are tied to the package of google services. is this so, or can a nexus-user break free from google's domain and enjoy the benefits of a quality low-cost device without being beholden to the google ecosystem?

From what I know, for the 2012 Nexus 7 at least, there are lots of custom ROMs, some of them without Google Apps. There are even alternative operating systems like Ubuntu Touch. I don't know if other emerging mobile OS such as Firefox OS and Sailfish have been ported already or not, but if not, I'm sure they will, given the market share of the device and the amount of people interested. Ultimately, you can also run GNU/Linux with the usual light desktop environments.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#166

Post by fooqux »

bad_user wrote: post #162
r0h1n wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And this is a pain, given that many apps these days (Facebook, Twitter) want to get your current city... Them wanting, I can understand. But why should you give them that?

Because currently it isn't optional, which is a flaw in Android's permissions system that sucks.

Three points:

1) Newer custom ROMs can deny permissions on a per-app basis. I understand this isn't for everyone, but I enjoy having this option very much on my own device. (I also agree with you that it should be baked into the vanilla Android, but I can understand why they wouldn't want to confuse users with that option.)

2) Some apps will give you a choice in their own settings (if you trust that).

3) You always have the option of just not installing an app if you don't like the permissions. There's a fair bit of apps I refuse to install/update because their permissions asking for way more than I think their feature set requires.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#167

Post by studentrob »

bad_user wrote: post #83
cromwellian wrote: post #24

Most of the examples of Google closed apps that are not part of the AOSP release are in fact apps that are based off of Google data-center services. Would it really help Samsung if the source to the Gmail app was open? Since Google controls the server side, and the client-server protocol, it limits the amount of innovation they can do. The web equivalent would be like claiming that Chrome OS isn't open because the so…

You're partly right, but in regards to the Gmail app, what I don't like about Android is that it doesn't come with a good email client that's not GMail. Android's GMail client is very polished and there's not much in it that's specific to Gmail, it could be a generic email client that works with POP3/IMAP/SMTP and other standards as well. The experience of users that aren't into Android's own services do suffer. But…

Is GMail subject to the same task killer that 3rd party apps are? I suspect it isn't.

If that's true then Google has given itself a good monopoly for email on its own OS, much like Microsoft did for Internet Explorer.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#169

Post by badman_ting »

r0h1n wrote: post #134
cromwellian wrote: post #24

Most of the examples of Google closed apps that are not part of the AOSP release are in fact apps that are based off of Google data-center services. Would it really help Samsung if the source to the Gmail app was open? Since Google controls the server side, and the client-server protocol, it limits the amount of innovation they can do. The web equivalent would be like claiming that Chrome OS isn't open because the so…

Aren't we forgetting about the closed-source elephant in the room - Google Play Services - the "platform behind the platform"? >> Play Services has system-level powers, but it's updatable. It's part of the Google apps package, so it's not open source. OEMs are not allowed to modify it, making it completely under Google's control. Play Services basically acts as a shim between the normal apps and the installed Android…

This is either becoming or already is the core of Android, and it's closed source and no one wants to talk abut it. It's ridiculous.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#170

Post by ksk »

I think Google's malicious intent is being over-exaggerated. It could simply be that they don't have enough resources to maintain old code. As to them creating closed-source apps, well, Google knows which side their bread is buttered on :) Anything that makes money for them is closed source.
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