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Contractors See Weeks of Work on Health Site

nytimes.com

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Re: Contractors See Weeks of Work on Health Site

#41
post #11

$400M for 500M lines of code. That's roughly $800/KLoC. I wonder how that compares to any other modern software.

$800 pays for roughly one day's worth of work for a senior developer in the US. One thousand lines of working, debugged code (which is presumably what's being paid for) sounds like an awful lot of code for one person to write in a day, if the problem domain has any degree of complexity. Some parts of healthcare.gov could be quite complex, e.g., interfacing to other government systems whose APIs are not well documented.

And I agree with the people who think that 500M lines of code is unlikely. Judging by some of the statistics that were cited in other comments (e.g., "Windows XP was 45 million lines of code"), this may be more lines of code than Microsoft has written since the company was founded (many of the lines of code in XP were originally from NT, etc.).

Re: Contractors See Weeks of Work on Health Site

#42
Pretty sure that is a direct rectal extraction number not a real number. If there were 500 million lines of code you would have a prima facie case for fraud on the part of the contractor since government contractors are required to use best industry practices and no industry practice supports 10x code expansion.

Re: Contractors See Weeks of Work on Health Site

#44
I've said this before. The fact that these people (government and it's contractors) are going to have and handle our most intimate information AND that the IRS is also in the loop scares the living daylights out of me. The level of incompetence being revealed here is almost without description.

To go all the way up to opening day, have these problems and then offer that five million lines of code need to be redone is, well, I'm at a loss for words. I am trying to think about how badly one could fuck up five million lines of, say, Python. That's a lot of code. It's almost like saying that you set out to write a portal for the ACA and mistakenly wrote an navigation system for a new spacecraft.

In many ways this is great. I can't think of a better example of how bad big government can be and often is. It is hard to argue with what is unfolding before our very eyes: An attempt at centralized control that succeeded on the legislative front but is failing miserably in execution due to nothing less than incompetence at all levels. And, to boot, it is costing hundreds of millions and will probably cost billions if it doesn't implode under it's own mess.

Look at this in sharp contrast with what I happen to think would have been a far better approach: Free market decentralized healthcare. All they had to do is open interstate borders to launch all available companies into competition and slowly open other gates in order to promote free and open competition. Yes, judicious regulations would have been required here and there, but always with the goal of having an ecosystem that is as free as reasonably possible.

In this scenario at worst the government would launch a open-source projects to develop open and well-debated APIs for publishing and sharing all pertinent information. Various sites could then connect to any available insurance company through these standard API's in order to gather, present and sell insurance to anyone. Instead of having a badly executed centralized attempt to develop a portal you'd have thousands of entrepreneurs jump into the fray for an opportunity to offer the best possible services. Very soon the best-in-breed services would rise to the top and continually evolve better and better offerings.

Cheaper, faster, better. All three.

Instead we got this shit.

Re: Contractors See Weeks of Work on Health Site

#45

Pretty sure that is a direct rectal extraction number not a real number. If there were 500 million lines of code you would have a prima facie case for fraud on the part of the contractor since government contractors are required to use best industry practices and no industry practice supports 10x code expansion.

I can just imagine some clueless bureaucrat bragging to his colleagues that his project has 500 million lines of code.

Re: Contractors See Weeks of Work on Health Site

#49
post #34

Sounds like a load of crap to me. Seriously, 500 million lines of code? I bet not even mission-critical code written to power NASA spacecraft and satellites are anywhere near that length. I propose they give the project to the HN community, divide up the $400 million figure amongst the participants and give us a weekend and I bet we'll have more to show than that of the so-called developers the government hired. I am…

While I completely agree with you in general, a nit pick: > I bet not even mission-critical code written to power NASA spacecraft and satellites are anywhere near that length. That doesn't seem like a good example. You want to keep the code in those kinds of things to a minimum, and that's probably not too hard.

Yeah, that's the best example I could come up with at the time of writing the comment. It's been a long day today, and I don't mind the nit-pick, you are right.

Re: Contractors See Weeks of Work on Health Site

#50
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it approaching that even with the lines of code for their existing packages. For instance, this is old and out of date, but you could extrapolate a ballpark estimate out of it... looks like back in 2007 or so JDK was about 6 million LoC ( http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~darcy/OpenJdkDevGuide/OpenJdkDev... ). Even if it increased tenfold since then, it's barely making a dent in that 500 million LoC number.

Don't forget to add in the lines of code for the Linux kernel on which they are running and the MySQL database etc etc. I kept reading the article and on the last you find this gem: According to one specialist, the Web site contains about 500 million lines of software code. By comparison, a large bank’s computer system is typically about one-fifth that size. That to me suggests the number is bogus, because it is so o…

Simply measuring the web site in 'lines of code' as if that's meaningful indicates that it's a quote by someone who is not aware of how modern programming works.
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