The Capitalist Manifesto: Greed Is Good (To a point) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Capitalist Manifesto: Greed Is Good (To a point)

#31

Post by nazgulnarsil » Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 5:05 AM UTC

sgibat wrote: post #22

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

markets are not really a thing. they are just what happens in the absence of people shoving guns in other peoples faces. in the absence of force the only way to get what you want is to offer other people things that they want in exchange. this is civilization, the alternatives are barbarism.

that isn't entirely true. small groups behave more like communes. think of small tribes or family units. everyone has to pull their weight, but much is done simply for the good of others or for the good of the group as a whole. the domination of the market only emerges when a group grows to a certain size. i would suggest that civilization requires both communes and markets to function properly -- basically, communes…

what your describing is continuing contracts. this is covered by markets. many informal exchanges would be better off if they were formalized in contracts.

Re: The Capitalist Manifesto: Greed Is Good (To a point)

#32

Post by nazgulnarsil » Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 5:06 AM UTC

berntb wrote: post #23

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is that it is impossible to audit said models. unlike real science the social sciences can't isolate variables in order to test predictive power.

Like e.g. palaeontology, economists can't do experiments. You must remember that about economy. I've read a bit too much criticism of economy as a science using the same argument you see from creationists against palaeontology. (That is, assumptions that all researchers are idiots and/or in a conspiracy against the creationists/left wing extremists.)

well pure paleontology is abduction is a sense. but the thing about paleontology is that it is based on biology in which we can do experiments.

Re: The Capitalist Manifesto: Greed Is Good (To a point)

#33

Post by johnnybgoode » Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 8:08 AM UTC

There's a big problem here. When people like this use the word "capitalism" to mean the massive, ultra-financialized, state corporatist economy we have today, they confuse many into thinking this has something to do with free markets based on voluntary exchange.

So people who are understandably annoyed that Wall Streeters make millions without contributing very much, if anything, are unnecessarily encouraged to support state socialist policies. In reality, it is the lack of free markets which caused such problems in the first place.

Re: The Capitalist Manifesto: Greed Is Good (To a point)

#34

Post by nazgulnarsil » Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 8:09 AM UTC

gort wrote: post #21

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #7

us free marketers have already lost...capitalism, greed, these are terms invented by anti-free market ideologues. the free market existed before the term capitalism was coined by Marx, what is greed but self-interest? those who pretend to be concerned with something other than their own welfare are in denial at best, and manipulative liars at worst. If we only ever debate on their terms we can not hope to avoid the s…

"those who pretend to be concerned with something other than their own welfare are in denial at best, and manipulative liars at worst." http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Typical_mind_fallacy You are not me.

my statement wasn't based on anecdotal evidence.

Re: The Capitalist Manifesto: Greed Is Good (To a point)

#35

Post by berntb » Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 8:16 AM UTC

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #32

berntb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like e.g. palaeontology, economists can't do experiments. You must remember that about economy. I've read a bit too much criticism of economy as a science using the same argument you see from creationists against palaeontology. (That is, assumptions that all researchers are idiots and/or in a conspiracy against the creationists/left wing extremists.)

well pure paleontology is abduction is a sense. but the thing about paleontology is that it is based on biology in which we can do experiments.

Economy is arguably based on cognitive psychology and game theory. (A bit less strictly, but it should even out with all the lacking environmental parameters in paleontology...)