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Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

economist.com

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Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#61

Post by davidvaughan »

dnautics wrote: post #26

Was I the only one who found no evidence in this article about 'teaching children to think'? There was some discussion about metrics (such as PISA) but that is not, to me, any sort of evidence about the ability to think.

No, you weren't the only one.

The only reality-based test mentioned in this review was whether Okies could get a "basic" job in a factory, and an assertion that this would require critical thinking skills (with the implication that such skills would be of the sort taught at school).

However, I think Ripley may give more in her book. An NYT review suggests she discusses how American school-leavers "lack the knowledge and skill to compete in the global economy". It's all a bit vague, I admit.

"Teaching children to think" is a much-used phrase. It could mean a great many things.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#62

Post by sillysaurus2 »

kappaknight wrote: post #35
hrktb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely enjoyed school from primary sections to university, but now as a parent I feel more and more that the school is also there to act as a buffer between the parents and children and push society's values down the kid's throat, for better or worse. i.e. Sitting 8 hours a day in school is a way to make it normal to sit 8 hours a day in a cubicle. I don't know if I'd want my child to go through that and be able…

Do you have Montessori schools near where you live? Look into those... =)

Actually, I went to a Montessori school from kindergarten through 3rd grade. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4459226

Summary: There were 60+ kids and only two teachers. The kids were allowed to do whatever they wanted all day. About the only thing I learned is how to forge the signature of my assistant teacher. And some kid hit me with a metal shovel and wasn't given more than a stern talking to about why hitting people with shovels is a bad thing.

I may have just gotten unlucky in attending a particularly bad Montessori school, however.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#63

Post by NickPollard »

anonemouscoward wrote: post #59
jwr wrote: post #49

I am Polish, I live in Poland, and I found the article's praise for our education system strange. My opinion of it is much lower. I regularly worry about teaching my children to think for themselves — because I believe this is something the schooling system actively discourages. I also don't think that recent reforms did much to improve education, and I don't see why anyone could think they did. I would approach this…

Everything the Economist publishes is motivated purely by politics. Poland is the number one USA ally, offset against the EU, and, especially, Russia, the evil bad guy in this current cold war.

Poland is part of the EU.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#64

Post by jakub_g »

jwr wrote: post #49

I am Polish, I live in Poland, and I found the article's praise for our education system strange. My opinion of it is much lower. I regularly worry about teaching my children to think for themselves — because I believe this is something the schooling system actively discourages. I also don't think that recent reforms did much to improve education, and I don't see why anyone could think they did. I would approach this…

Recent graduate, I have the same experience. On the technical university I've met people who can't add two rational numbers correctly. High school programs in maths are setting lower bars every year. Since a few years ago, derivatives are no longer being taught in the high schools even in "extended math" path. And then you come to the university and have to catch up with incredible amounts of stuff to know what the physics professor is talking about.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#65

Post by mtts »

qwerta wrote: post #41

I am from Czech Republic, which has educational system similar to celebrated Poland. "The holly cow" of reforms is to increase number of university graduates, if possible without spending extra money. On technical universities it means rationalizing and streamlining (for example before reforms to study IT I would also have to learn technical drawing). Also three years bachelor degree was practically non-existent. In…

You actually touch on a good point: because educational success of a country is measured in the number of university* graduates, governments incentivize universities to, well, produce more graduates, which they do both by lowering standards for existing fields of study and by creating new fields that attract a lot of students but which don't really teach anything worthwhile.

The result is graduates are far, far less well educated than their predecessors but on paper (including, I would presume, PISA) a much larger proportion of the population is "highly educated", making the government look good.

To give an example of lowered standards everyone here can probably relate to: up until about five years ago, students at the school for applied information science where I work were required to learn (a bit of) assembly so they understood how computers work at the CPU level. This requirement has now been scrapped, resulting in applied information science graduates who don't know the first thing about how computers actually work. On paper, however, our school looks very good, because, after all, it is producing a larger number of "knowledge workers" than before.

* this goes for schools for higher vocational training as well

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#66

Post by pavlov »

My opinion and anecdotal experience is that the first priority in teaching children should be foreign languages. The younger you start, the easier it is to learn to speak and think in a foreign language. Almost everything else of any relevance can be taught basically as a side effect of language immersion.

I'm Finnish and went to a French-speaking school. I didn't understand any French going in, but at the age of 6, you pick it up quickly as long as it's a friendly environment. Later during the standard 12-year education, I had English as a third language, then Swedish (it's obligatory in Finland) and also German.

All the other stuff taught in school is such that a reasonably smart kid can learn it on her own as needed. But foreign languages are not like that. Thanks to computer games, I was somewhat fluent in reading English even before the classes started in school, but I couldn't speak a word -- you just don't learn pronounciation and conversation from games and TV shows, you need to have a real teacher.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#67

Post by hanula »

jwr wrote: post #49

I am Polish, I live in Poland, and I found the article's praise for our education system strange. My opinion of it is much lower. I regularly worry about teaching my children to think for themselves — because I believe this is something the schooling system actively discourages. I also don't think that recent reforms did much to improve education, and I don't see why anyone could think they did. I would approach this…

I would say the same, it's quite a shock read such a statement. On the other side I value my education I had in Poland only because it was hard sometimes and I was looking into how to hack the system and outsmart teachers' questions/assignments (math especially). Education system I had ten years ago was focused on memorization, "soft" subjects and skills (languages, first language) while math and physics weren't valued that much. On a maturity exam in 1998 we had an option (for the first time for everyone in the country), to choose between old style exam (Polish and second subject) and new style with obligatory math, much more tests and subjects, everything you could easily pass if you just know how to think. Old style was all about evaluation of how much did you remember from past 4 years... I was the only one in the whole school to choose the new form, where everyone else picked up this dumb but safe archaic form. I could also say a lot about technical universities in Poland.. I didn't graduate actually, after spending over 8 years there, failing stupid, uninteresting subjects, fighting stubborn teachers. Had great scores in subjects that actually interested me. This education system forces you to learn unnecessary things, to remember results and less to know the thinking process. Angry and mentally ill teachers making you suffer for minor or no reason at all. I know plenty of fellow countrymen similar process made them stronger but saying our system is good is far fetched.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#68

Post by morkbot »

jwr wrote: post #49

I am Polish, I live in Poland, and I found the article's praise for our education system strange. My opinion of it is much lower. I regularly worry about teaching my children to think for themselves — because I believe this is something the schooling system actively discourages. I also don't think that recent reforms did much to improve education, and I don't see why anyone could think they did. I would approach this…

Apparently this is about PISA rating and Poland's "swift rise" in it - so:

1) it's verifiable

2) it's probably more about having good average than having some students be super-smart

3) it says more about PISA than Poland

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#69

Post by V-2 »

anonemouscoward wrote: post #59
jwr wrote: post #49

I am Polish, I live in Poland, and I found the article's praise for our education system strange. My opinion of it is much lower. I regularly worry about teaching my children to think for themselves — because I believe this is something the schooling system actively discourages. I also don't think that recent reforms did much to improve education, and I don't see why anyone could think they did. I would approach this…

Everything the Economist publishes is motivated purely by politics. Poland is the number one USA ally, offset against the EU, and, especially, Russia, the evil bad guy in this current cold war.

Actually it's the USA that plays the role of a bad guy in the article, with its "grim education results". And not a word about Russia

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#70

Post by CrankyPants »

CrankyPants wrote: post #21
kubov wrote: post #13

Well, reading that as a 22 years old Polish male gives me mixed feelings. I was living in Poland and studying there for my whole life and basically I have experience basically in whole educational process here (preschool, elementary, gymnasium, high school and now pursuing BS degree at polytechnic) I can definitely say that polish educational system is not that great. Of course we have a lot of people contesting in c…

Thanks for the insight. Every major publication runs a piece just like this every few years. The exotic countries and methods always differ somewhat, but the formula is always the same. It's the pseudo-intellectual version of the filler/cover-baitait articles on new ways to become heart healthy, or inventions that will change the world, usually done well in advance and saved for slow news-weeks. Not that the subject…

Sorry, typed that one out on a touchscreen and blew it. "baitait" = "bait"
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