Only a few countries are teaching children how to think • Hacker News Board

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#31

Post by visakanv » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 6:41 AM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #9

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #2

Growing up, I declined to participate in the educational system (primarily to avoid harassment at school) and instead spent all of my time learning to program video games at home. So I would sleep through class, go home, and try to write Pong. My academic performance was nonexistent, but I came out of it with a career. I was wondering, was anyone else's childhood experience similar? Highschool felt at best a dungeon,…

I have a somewhat similar, though critically different, story. For much of school I wasn't very engaged in formal learning. I didn't hate it, but it didn't hold my attention, and the drudgery was boring. I would often not do homework and slack off on projects. As a consequence of this when I entered high school I was put on the advanced track on math and nothing else. To the everlasting credit of my adolescent self I…

"how many other smart people have been ill served"

In fact this line of reasoning always leads me to question things like "smart" altogether. What is smartness, really, but the ability to navigate ideaspace and execute in meatspace? And how much of ability is trained, practiced, nourished?

Sure, there's always some variance, but it makes you think.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#32

Post by philwelch » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 6:46 AM UTC

aspensmonster wrote: post #12

clavalle wrote: post #8

> the company is struggling to find Okies with the skills to fill even its most basic factory jobs. Such posts require workers to think critically Perhaps those educated enough to think critically put that skill to work before accepting a factory job making mass produced biscuits. My critical thinking skills lead me to guess that is not the most fulfilling, high paying, or upwardly mobile job even for Oklahoma.

>Such posts require workers to think critically, yet graduates of local schools are often unable to read or do simple maths. This is why the company recently decided to open a new factory in Poland... This was the solution? Seriously? Going through the hassle of opening up a factory on the other side of the planet across language and legal barriers all because the local population in Oklahoma didn't come shrink-wrapp…

The point of public education is that all of us contribute to it (through taxes) for the common good and all of us reap the rewards of an educated workforce and electorate. If public education has failed, then you can't expect a business to make up for that singlehandedly when it's more profitable to get what they need elsewhere.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#33

Post by V-2 » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 6:49 AM UTC

kubov wrote: post #13

Well, reading that as a 22 years old Polish male gives me mixed feelings. I was living in Poland and studying there for my whole life and basically I have experience basically in whole educational process here (preschool, elementary, gymnasium, high school and now pursuing BS degree at polytechnic) I can definitely say that polish educational system is not that great. Of course we have a lot of people contesting in c…

The peculiarity of Poland is that so many young people go to university - due to the fact that you don't pay for studying at public universities (well: the tax-payer does), however the majors they choose are the likes of philosophy, sociology, political science etc.

Interesting as these subjects are, they don't give anyone an easy start on a job market as tough as it is in Poland.

And the reality is that 1.5-3 milions (estimations vary) have left for Western Europe (since Poland entered EU in 2004) and Tescos in London can boast having the best educated staff, consisting mostly of graduates.

Even those who stay in Poland often see studying as a way to delay the moment of entering the job market, and this is hardly a surprise, given that this moment is typically unpleasant. By striving for an MA, they get a compelling alibi to be subsidized by their parents for 5 more years.

Many wouldn't educate themselves further if they had a chance of getting a decent job allowing them to move out, pay their bills and live without counting every penny.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#34

Post by grn » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 6:56 AM UTC

I live in Poland, went to school here, and definitely cannot confirm the claims made in the article. Half of my education happened in the reform school system that the article mentions and almost everyone agrees that it's much worse that the previous one.

High school in Poland used to be a preparation for further education at university. It ends with a nation-wide exam called matura. The reform greatly reduced the number of other types of schools. It has two effects. First, it's much harder to find a skilled worker because there are much less workers trained. Second, the general level of education at high schools dropped significantly. It had to drop because otherwise many of the new pupils wouldn't pass the matura. Notions of a logarithm, exponential, prime decomposition has become foreign to pupils. No one has heard about a derivative or an integral for more than a decade.

Of course all the above is a generalisation. There are some great schools with teachers who really want to teach their subjects instead of just formally completing stages of the government-mandated education program. Unfortunately they are in minority. I'm really concerned about quality of education that my children will get in this country. Home schooling is an option though an expensive one.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#35

Post by kappaknight » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 6:57 AM UTC

hrktb wrote: post #17

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #2

Growing up, I declined to participate in the educational system (primarily to avoid harassment at school) and instead spent all of my time learning to program video games at home. So I would sleep through class, go home, and try to write Pong. My academic performance was nonexistent, but I came out of it with a career. I was wondering, was anyone else's childhood experience similar? Highschool felt at best a dungeon,…

I genuinely enjoyed school from primary sections to university, but now as a parent I feel more and more that the school is also there to act as a buffer between the parents and children and push society's values down the kid's throat, for better or worse. i.e. Sitting 8 hours a day in school is a way to make it normal to sit 8 hours a day in a cubicle. I don't know if I'd want my child to go through that and be able…

Do you have Montessori schools near where you live? Look into those... =)

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#36

Post by joshuaheard » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 7:02 AM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #4

Over here in Indonesia, most of the more prestigious schools follow the Singapore model. Kids do end up studying a lot, but on the whole it doesn't seem more than I did as a kid (in rural America). They tend to be pretty well-rounded, teach three languages (English, Bahasa, and Mandarin), and follow roughly the math courses I remember as a child though perhaps a year advanced by 4th grade. In the US, schools seem to…

"Education begins and ends at home, and what schools offer is largely a supplement for the home."

I think it is the opposite. I pay the school to teach my kid. I don't expect to have them come home and require me to finish the job. Can you imagine if you went to a restaurant and they said, we prepared the food, but you must cook it.

I work every day with my child on her homework, but it is not to teach her what she learned at school, it is to supplement her teaching with things you won't learn in the classroom.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#37

Post by pgeorgi » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 7:02 AM UTC

Qantourisc wrote: post #28

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #2

Growing up, I declined to participate in the educational system (primarily to avoid harassment at school) and instead spent all of my time learning to program video games at home. So I would sleep through class, go home, and try to write Pong. My academic performance was nonexistent, but I came out of it with a career. I was wondering, was anyone else's childhood experience similar? Highschool felt at best a dungeon,…

Well you DO need a school to learn to read and write. Atleast for a few years. Otherwise their won't be much learning on your own :) And about declining school: there are does that decline them trough reasoning, and other due to being lazy... The most important thing to teach a child, any child, and you need to get this one right: self-reflection/evaluation: what am I doing, what effect will this have? Get that one r…

I know lots of kids that knew reading and writing before they entered school. Second year level calculation, too.

Of course the writing is quite crude, but motor control improves with age not with schooling.

The main thing in common I could discern so far is that the parents encourage curiosity and use those skills themselves.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#38

Post by sunnyujjawal » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 7:03 AM UTC

Some MNC's and NGO can play important role in it.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#39

Post by ACow_Adonis » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 7:13 AM UTC

clavalle wrote: post #8

> the company is struggling to find Okies with the skills to fill even its most basic factory jobs. Such posts require workers to think critically Perhaps those educated enough to think critically put that skill to work before accepting a factory job making mass produced biscuits. My critical thinking skills lead me to guess that is not the most fulfilling, high paying, or upwardly mobile job even for Oklahoma.

I am sure that company wants those engaged in its lowest paid repetitive tasks to be critical thinkers.

They might sit there, thinking critically, and realise that skill-shortage is economic new-speak for "wage-shortage". Everyone wants a ferrari, no one wants to pay for it. This doesn't mean there is a ferrari-shortage. Similarly, every big business and corporation wants cheap labour, preferably labour that will take the cost of any necessary skills and training on itself, or have it paid for by government. When it cannot get it, the stock standard propaganda cry is "skill shortage", often even when unemployment levels amongst...say...university graduates... remains high.

Of course, despite this "shortage" they will not raise wages. They will not pay for training to up-skill people...because its simply spin.

Then the workers on the line might think critically and realise that the reason the jobs were outsourced had to do with simple wage levels and the relative supply of cheap unskilled labour in other countries, and nothing to do with education, skills, or training at all. They'd realise that the company was just repeating the usual propoganda, and probably be pretty pissed off.

I'm sure that's what companies REALLY want.

Re: Only a few countries are teaching children how to think

#40

Post by boothead » Fri, Oct 18, 2013, 7:16 AM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #4

Over here in Indonesia, most of the more prestigious schools follow the Singapore model. Kids do end up studying a lot, but on the whole it doesn't seem more than I did as a kid (in rural America). They tend to be pretty well-rounded, teach three languages (English, Bahasa, and Mandarin), and follow roughly the math courses I remember as a child though perhaps a year advanced by 4th grade. In the US, schools seem to…

Is that in the international schools or local? We are thinking of moving our family back to Indo and one concern is the education... Actually compared to the likely quality in the UK we probably have nothing to worry about!