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TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

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Re: TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

#21

Post by growupkids »

Perhaps what the actually conclusion one should take from this memo is not that terrorists don't exist, clearly they do, but rather that those terrorists are now focusing on softer targets, because aviation is seen as too difficult. I realize this may be an unpopular opinion, because let's face it the TSA searches are demeaning and some might argue an invasion of privacy. But it seems like a non sequitur to say that because terrorists aren't focusing on aviation that they don't exist. Maybe aviation is hard to hit, and they want to focus on easier targets like shooting up malls.

Perhaps what's happenng here is that terrorists would like to target aviation, but TSA is doing just a good enough job to dissuade them. I know, blasphemy. The government can't do anything right.

Re: TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

#22

Post by toomuchtodo »

roc wrote: post #11
canistr wrote: post #4

But couldn't it be argued that the use of body-scanners functions as a form of strong deterrent for potential plots? If a potential terrorist understands that they will eventually be caught or that the stakes to beat the system are too high, they will look at alternative forms of terrorism simply because the investment to beat airport security is too high.

> "couldn't it be argued..." About as effectively as arguing a tiger-repellant rock is strong deterrent.

"Lisa, I want to buy your rock."

Re: TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

#23

Post by MrZongle2 »

zzzeek wrote: post #7

I know I'm throwing my karma down the toilet here but domestic-sourced airline terrorism has happened before. The TSA (edit: OK, whoever it was that scanned our bags and ran us through the metal detector, if it was not "the TSA") was unaware of 9/11 as well. Argue all you want that we should just tolerate the occasional 9/11-style (edit: or the random pipe bomb blowing out the side of the plane, cockpit doors can't p…

The TSA did not exist prior to 9/11/2001.

Elements of various intelligence community agencies were aware of a 9/11-style plot and were aware of the hijackers' existence within the United States. If these existing agencies had worked together and done their job, 9/11 might never have happened.

All without anyone removing their belts, frisking grandma, or having to stand like a perp in a county lock-up.

Re: TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

#25

Post by untog »

pessimizer wrote: post #18
k2enemy wrote: post #15

I'm a huge critic of the TSA and would be thrilled to see it dismantled, but I always find these kinds of arguments a little intellectually dishonest. It could be that “terrorist threat groups present in the Homeland are not known to be actively plotting against civil aviation targets or airports” because we have scanners in place that deter that kind of threat. Now, I don't believe this is the case, as plenty of res…

It could be that my mother isn't dead because I avoided stepping on a crack yesterday. I'd appreciate some evidence, though.

This seems like a perfect example of the intellectual dishonesty k2enemy was talking about. Those two examples are not comparable.

There is no demonstrable, rational connection in your example. It is entirely rational and possible that extra airport security is a deterrent to airbourne terrorism.

Re: TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

#26

Post by k2enemy »

pessimizer wrote: post #18
k2enemy wrote: post #15

I'm a huge critic of the TSA and would be thrilled to see it dismantled, but I always find these kinds of arguments a little intellectually dishonest. It could be that “terrorist threat groups present in the Homeland are not known to be actively plotting against civil aviation targets or airports” because we have scanners in place that deter that kind of threat. Now, I don't believe this is the case, as plenty of res…

It could be that my mother isn't dead because I avoided stepping on a crack yesterday. I'd appreciate some evidence, though.

Right. Your example sounds ridiculous because there is no logical connection between not stepping on a crack and your mother's life. To most people, there is a connection between airport scanners and airline safety. My point is that we should be stressing the fact that the scanners do not actually increase safety.

Re: TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

#27

Post by herbig »

If I were trying to champion a legitimate cause, I would steer way clear of acknowledging Infowars by name or calling them "journalists."

You could just say that a third party discovered it or something, but you definitely don't want to imply that they're fighting the good fight alongside you.

Re: TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

#28

Post by toomuchtodo »

zzzeek wrote: post #7

I know I'm throwing my karma down the toilet here but domestic-sourced airline terrorism has happened before. The TSA (edit: OK, whoever it was that scanned our bags and ran us through the metal detector, if it was not "the TSA") was unaware of 9/11 as well. Argue all you want that we should just tolerate the occasional 9/11-style (edit: or the random pipe bomb blowing out the side of the plane, cockpit doors can't p…

Have you ever been in line in a long TSA queue at a major airport? See anybody get scanned before getting in that line? With a coordinated attack across multiple airports, you could kill far more people just while they're standing in line to get their TSA gaterape procedure performed than you could by attacking while onboard an aircraft.

The aircraft attack vector has already been played out. Lets keep sane regulations in place (metal detectors, armored/locked cockpit doors), and move on to better problems to solve.

Re: TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

#29

Post by rhizome »

k2enemy wrote: post #15

I'm a huge critic of the TSA and would be thrilled to see it dismantled, but I always find these kinds of arguments a little intellectually dishonest. It could be that “terrorist threat groups present in the Homeland are not known to be actively plotting against civil aviation targets or airports” because we have scanners in place that deter that kind of threat. Now, I don't believe this is the case, as plenty of res…

as plenty of research has shown that the scanners don't increase security

We can infer from this statement of yours that "the scanners" (such as they are) are not a component of security, so the analogy to Fort Knox security is inapt.

Re: TSA Admits In Leaked Doc: No Evidence of Terrorist Plots Against Aviation in US

#30

Post by javajosh »

chris_mahan wrote: post #8
pavlov wrote: post #2

...But as you can see, Senator, there is also no evidence of the guaranteed absence of terrorist plots either. They are obviously even better hidden than we feared. Increased resources will be required to bring them to light. Our department has drafted a new budget proposal that takes this changed situation into account.

Especially since, Senator, the new facility to be built and staffed for the purpose of identifying these better-hidden terrorists, will be built in your district!

And, Senator, if you don't support this program and, heaven forbid, another terror attack occurs that could have been prevented by the program, then your career will be over.
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