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Visual Studio 2013 released to web

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Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#101

Post by saejox »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #72
saejox wrote: post #64

"Please install Internet Explorer 10 and then retry installing Visual Studio" Internet Explorer 10 also insists on Windows 7 SP1 installation. I'm using this Win7 install since 2009. I'm very scared the update will jinx it.

That's such a horrible practice I don't even. You're forcing yourself to stay on an older, potentially less maintained version of the OS so you don't "jinx it"?

I heard many complaints about SP1 slow starting and getting stuck in 'Shutting Down'. On top of that SP1 has zero new features. Bunch of so called security updates. From my perpective i'm using the stable version.

If thing go awry i would need to waste a day or two reinstalling the OS again. It's very easy to resist installing this update.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#102

Post by nightski »

727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

I disagree heavily. Stock VS is very fast. However it does slow down significantly when using a plugin like ReSharper.

But for me in the end it is worth it. Show me any text editor or IDE that provides the same number and quality of productivity enhancing features as ReSharper that isn't as slow or slower.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#103

Post by overgryphon »

mkohlmyr wrote: post #44
_pmf_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the problem here is that VS needs to satisfy the needs of many different types of developers No, it does not need to. Someone decided that it needs to pander to web monkeys instead of empowering users that have used VS for 10+ years.

"web monkeys" Cute. Meanwhile you're the one developing in VS on Windows.

I don't think the comment was intended to be derogatory towards web programmers, so much as annoyed at the "you can create a website in an hour without writing a line of code" oriented features. Some of the web-oriented stuff in VS over the last several years seemed to be targeted towards mouse-oriented design of small web apps rather than more serious web programming. I do not think that is still the case, though I haven't really been paying attention.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#104

Post by 10098 »

727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

VS6 was very fast, but its compiler was bad at standard compliance. GCC was much better. The newer MS compilers are way better at supportiung the standard and they also did a great job integrating the new language features. So I would say there is significant progress since the days of VS6 :) That being said, VS 2012 works pretty fast for me (I'm on a fairly beefy machine though).

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#105

Post by adamdavis »

727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

How many projects do you consider to be a 'great number'? I ask because I do development in VS with solutions that contain around 300 projects and don't experience anything close to what I would consider 'really sludgy'.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#106

Post by bengoodger »

727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

Chromium is an extreme case of this. When we started we wanted to live the VS way of life (IDE tools and the like), so we had a Chrome.sln and various projects. Eventually it became too much. It would take minutes to load the sln, and woe to you if you synced your source tree while msvs was open, as you'd receive a neverending slew of modal prompts asking you to reload each of hundreds of projects. I think we still have a msvs build, but most developers use ninja on Windows, and just use msvs for debugging. The sad fact is that addons like Visual Assist X provide many of the benefits of the IDE without requiring projects to be loaded.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#107

Post by 727374 »

adamdavis wrote: post #105
727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

How many projects do you consider to be a 'great number'? I ask because I do development in VS with solutions that contain around 300 projects and don't experience anything close to what I would consider 'really sludgy'.

~50. A lot of the projects were created in older versions of VS, which may or may not matter.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#108

Post by adamdavis »

727374 wrote: post #107
adamdavis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many projects do you consider to be a 'great number'? I ask because I do development in VS with solutions that contain around 300 projects and don't experience anything close to what I would consider 'really sludgy'.

~50. A lot of the projects were created in older versions of VS, which may or may not matter.

Cool. I see in another response to your post that someone mentions minute load times just to load up the solution file, something which I thankfully have not experienced just yet.

Makes me wonder what's accounting for the varied performance? Probably some combination of project size, plugins, and machine specs, I reckon. If one mans (persons) 10 projects contain 100x the code that my 50 projects contain it would certainly make sense to have longer load times.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#109

Post by chris_mahan »

anton_gogolev wrote: post #51
matwood wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft developer tools are becoming more and more oriented towards "wizard-and-designer-clickety-clickery" type development. Maybe you are just now noticing, but MS dev tools have always had wizard clicky things. For example, see the original Visual Basics from the 90s.

AFAIK, Visual Basic was targeted at non-professional/beginner programmers, so having wizards and designers is fine there. My main gripe with abundance of today's "visual programming" is that we have memory-managed languages with immense expressive power and ability to write all kinds of DSLs, yet what Microsoft does is it provides crippled XML-backed designers along with half-baked frameworks and class libraries.

All microsoft products are targeted at purchasing decision-makers.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#110

Post by stinos »

bengoodger wrote: post #106
727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

Chromium is an extreme case of this. When we started we wanted to live the VS way of life (IDE tools and the like), so we had a Chrome.sln and various projects. Eventually it became too much. It would take minutes to load the sln, and woe to you if you synced your source tree while msvs was open, as you'd receive a neverending slew of modal prompts asking you to reload each of hundreds of projects. I think we still h…

The hundreds of modal prompts are combined into a single 'Reload All'. Only since VS2012 though if I'm not mistaken.
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