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Google Fiber now allows servers for non-commercial use

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Re: Google Fiber now allows servers for non-commercial use

#151
post #101
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a very non-busy website on my home server. Its got ads so I guess its a business. Seems petty to ban such things. (Not on Google Fiber)

Simply making money is not enough to classify your website as commercial. Also, it is likely your website costs you money when you factor in hardware, electricity, and programing time. Even if you make money your website probably still counts as hobby unless you have incorporated or are running it like you would run a business.

Good point. I am definitely not making a profit.

Re: Google Fiber now allows servers for non-commercial use

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Real price" is the cost of a connection that "never" slows down, because it is literally dedicated to you and only you. So I have come to the conclusion that in part we are talking past each other. You are saying “Consider the set of people such that they need more bandwidth than is available in the pre-existing copper/fiber cabeling to the premises. In that case they need new cable/fiber. This is expensive. The f…

> “Consider the set of people such that they need more bandwidth than is available in the pre-existing copper/fiber cabeling to the premises." Close. I'm saying 'Considering the set of people that need more bandwidth than is available regardless of the pre-existing infrastructure. It's a subtle difference, but it matters. Your next point is a good example of why : > Here in Austin, we have 8x4 DOCSIS3 to the building…

> but with service only capable of around 100mbit at the highest.

I can tell you from my direct personal knowledge, that my neighbors' and my combined speed through this ISP can exceed 200mbit, and there is another ISP available in this building that can exceed 110mbit. We are getting a third ISP in 2014 that is several orders of magnitude faster, so that will be at least 3 lines to this 10-unit building that have objectively-measured speeds exceeding 100mbit.

It is entirely possible that this 200mbit+ backhaul is shared over multiple buildings, but if that is the case, I do not notice. I move on the order of 25GB a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, and consulting 2 years of router logs suggests that I have never dropped below 30mbit (e.g., assuming both endpoints are up). That is sufficiently close to the performance of a dedicated line that moving any closer is irrelevant for any application I would ever have.

What I am saying is that this shared line is managed very well. And it is reasonable expectation for a user of a shared line that it is managed well. It is a reasonable expectation that the user achieve advertised speeds most of the time, and if this is unachievable, then the ISP should advertise achievable speeds. My ISP is perfectly capable of advertising 200mbit (since it is objectively achievable) but instead they advertise 35mbit. It is true that they do not always achieve 35mbit, but the performance is sufficiently close.

For example, it is at this very moment a peak time for a residential area. A speed test suggests I can achieve 33mbit down (94% advertised speed) and 5.5 mbit up (110% advertised speed). This is well within the margin of "close enough" for people who aren't doing high-frequency trading.

> So you won't get every house in a residential area.

Neither will you get every business in a business area. You have not presented a basis upon which to believe that it is more likely for an ISP in a competitive market to get a business customer than a residential customer. So if we assume the fill rate for a residence is 50%, we should assume a similar fill rate for businesses, and the geometric argument I presented still holds.

> If you don't understand the agreement you signed, call your cable company.

It's not a matter of me "not understanding" the agreement. It's a matter of it being objectively unclear.

The cable company is not the arbiter of what the agreement I signed means. The meaning of the agreement is objectively determined by either a judge or the AAA, the application of contract law in the State of Texas, and a good dictionary. Based on my knowledge of the forgoing, I believe that I could host an extremely high-traffic personal website within the terms of the agreement.

Would they like it? No. Will they threaten to cut me off as a customer? Possibly. Is it a violation of the agreement I signed? No. So here we have a situation where the real rules of the road (e.g., they will stop serving me as a customer if I do this) are not in fact the agreement I signed when I signed up for the service, but are arbitrary and unwritten decisions that are subject to the whim of some person at the ISP. I am saying that your claim that most ISPs have clear and fair written rules is objectively false, because there is no rule in my agreement that prevents me from saturating my connection all the time, and yet there are unwritten rules that prevent me from doing so.

Re: Google Fiber now allows servers for non-commercial use

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Real price" is the cost of a connection that "never" slows down, because it is literally dedicated to you and only you. So I have come to the conclusion that in part we are talking past each other. You are saying “Consider the set of people such that they need more bandwidth than is available in the pre-existing copper/fiber cabeling to the premises. In that case they need new cable/fiber. This is expensive. The f…

> “Consider the set of people such that they need more bandwidth than is available in the pre-existing copper/fiber cabeling to the premises." Close. I'm saying 'Considering the set of people that need more bandwidth than is available regardless of the pre-existing infrastructure. It's a subtle difference, but it matters. Your next point is a good example of why : > Here in Austin, we have 8x4 DOCSIS3 to the building…

Are you sure about those numbers? That's massively expensive, and it's hard to imagine ever even being profitable. If you charged your users 60 dollars a month at a minimum for access to that line you'd still need a minimum of 33 people, for one area. At just the rates you describes. Let alone the 33 cents per foot for the cable lines going to peoples houses and additional expenditures.

How on earth is the internet even possible at these rates?

Googles charging people 70 a month of gigabit up and down, those are sparsely connected homes throughout Kansas. The monthly maintenance cost alone for one block must be enormous, and for what? Two or three homes each block?

I was willing to accept that they were losing money on this endeavor, but not as catastrophically as this!

Re: Google Fiber now allows servers for non-commercial use

#154
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's their problem, not mine. I'm not the one that lied to get business.

I'd have a worse service for the same money. It would force the situation to always be exactly the same as the worst possible situation now (everyone using it at the same time), assuming it was done perfectly. How is that their problem? How is me getting a slower service for the same price not my problem ? Second, where did they lie? My terms and conditions explicitly state that speed is dependent on many factors, in…

No, you'd have the same service for the same money. It would just be labeled correctly, and not a complete fabrication.

Re: Google Fiber now allows servers for non-commercial use

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then, like I said, they should advertise they are selling "a usage profile" and not bandwidth. There are laws that protect consumers from being misled. Leaches, wtf? Should the power company be able too ban you from using the electricity they sell you to power a saw? If you do, are you then leeching from the other electricity customers?

Google isn't being misleading any more than a landlord. You can't run an auto repair shop in an apartment complex; they usually forbid that in the lease. Just because you purchased 800 square feet (or 1Gbps), doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with it.

Actually, that's exactly what the net neutrality rules say and that's the point of the internet.

Any legal device connecting to any legal service so long as you don't harm the network.

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