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Beer

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Re: Beer

#51

Post by [deleted] »

bradleyland wrote: post #25
tptacek wrote: post #9

Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment? That's what I think it is. Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of beer in our Chicago office (we haul crates from Russian River and Three Floyds and Jolly Pumpkin). But nobody drinks while they work, and nobody drinks whole bottles; we open a bottle and a bunch of people taste. If it's F…

> Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. There are a very long list of things that are typically prohibited at work that would be fine "if you're an adult about it." There's a crossover point at which the population of workers becomes large enough that it is difficult or impossible to impose the "be an adult" requirement. The arbiters of responsibility cannot be within reach of all behav…

[deleted]

Re: Beer

#53

Post by jiggy2011 »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #40
tptacek wrote: post #9

Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment? That's what I think it is. Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of beer in our Chicago office (we haul crates from Russian River and Three Floyds and Jolly Pumpkin). But nobody drinks while they work, and nobody drinks whole bottles; we open a bottle and a bunch of people taste. If it's F…

> I can't imagine this creating a problem. Are you serious? Talk to just about any attorney, and it won't take him or her more than a minute to rattle off a laundry list of scenarios that could literally turn your business upside down in an instant. Your question, "Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment?" suggests that you have some idea of what can go wrong but frankly, a hostile…

If you ask your attorney to enumerate possible disaster scenarios every time you make a decision relating to your business I'd guess you might decide that the whole thing was not worth the risk.

Re: Beer

#54

Post by dfxm12 »

drtse4 wrote: post #15

Maybe it's because i'm european and not living in the US, but this kegerator in the office thing looks like something that gets old fast. The first weeks it may sound fun, beer in the office, branded beer glasses,etc... but i don't understand how someone could care as the novelty wears of. And i hope i don't need to comment on that "devs need beer" thing, c'mon, childish stuff. Does a subset of the employee likes bee…

It has nothing to do with being European. My (multinational) company has offices in the US and Belgium. There's beer on tap in Belgium, and not in the US. Every time I visit, my colleagues in Europe always make a big stink like "how do you get stuff done over there with no beer?"

Re: Beer

#55

Post by notdonspaulding »

mgkimsal wrote: post #46

The beer culture is very very weird to me, and something I just don't get. I don't understand why companies don't promote an ice cream culture. Have custom flavors available throughout the day, a stocked freezer, etc. Sit back and have a sundae while discussing code problems. Try new toppings/sauces now and then, etc. I don't drink beer. When I was younger, it was mostly a financial issue. As I'm older, I just don't…

+1 for the proliferation of an ice cream culture.

Re: Beer

#56

Post by dfxm12 »

mathattack wrote: post #10
jiggy2011 wrote: post #6

Amongst companies that keep beer on premesis what is the culture surrounding it? If you come into work on monday morning and everyone is already onto their 3rd Carlsberg export by 12:30 then I can see why that might cause problems. OTOH companies that I've worked at that have kept beer in the fridge it has always been something that might be enjoyed with lunch on a friday or at 7PM when one has stayed a little late f…

At my current employer, there's rarely a lot of beer in the fridge, and people won't grab one before 4:30 or 5:00 or early in the week. Outside of interns, the people most likely to grab 1 or 2 are the hardest workers in the office.

Are you implying your interns are the hardest workers (aside from those who grab 1 or 2 beers) or are you implying that interns grab 1 or 2 beers, just like your hardest workers?

Re: Beer

#57

Post by ap22213 »

To me, having beer on tap just says, 'hey we have a relaxed, carefree, creative culture here.' And, I'm attracted to that.

Re: Beer

#58

Post by shanac »

Just as a caveat - I know Anne. I'm also a lady, so, some of the sexism arguments both do and don't ring true.

I'm not sure what I think. I've drunk alcohol in the office that had beer as a way of thinking through a problem. It worked. I also know a few engineers and other tech people who are alcoholics, and have admitted to me they spent serious time (and still do) in AA. I'm not sure the continual serving beer at pretty much every tech event I've ever been to is good for their careers. I'm 90% sure theire are events where they just bow out of because of temptation reasons (not every event, but still) I personally wouldn't mind a dry event just for calorie count/i don't need it reasons on occasion.

I also know that other countries drinking during the day is much more normal (an example here :http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2010-04... ) I also think other countries have very different feelings towards alcohol. The US still has some puritan motifs in its alcohol culture.

Finally, the one thing that does bother me - beer in tech companies usually means they want you to be there 24/7. Fine, ok - but you can do business elsewhere. For all you know interacting with some bartender may help you - and it isn't going to happen if your work life is also your social life, as implied by the kegs.

Re: Beer

#60

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #53
7Figures2Commas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't imagine this creating a problem. Are you serious? Talk to just about any attorney, and it won't take him or her more than a minute to rattle off a laundry list of scenarios that could literally turn your business upside down in an instant. Your question, "Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment?" suggests that you have some idea of what can go wrong but frankly, a hostile…

If you ask your attorney to enumerate possible disaster scenarios every time you make a decision relating to your business I'd guess you might decide that the whole thing was not worth the risk.

This is a straw man argument, and the type that can only appeal to a company wanting to make poor, ill-informed risk management decisions.

No business can eliminate all risk, but some risks are unnecessary and easily eliminated. Serving alcohol to employees creates a significant amount of potential legal liability (it could literally bankrupt your company) but it is hard to reasonably and objectively argue that the potential liabilities are outweighed by any of the potential benefits.

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