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Square Cash

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Re: Square Cash

#221
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realize that. The ubiquity of Interac around these parts, and its deep integration with all things financial, led me to believe it was an international institution. After spending the last week trying to find a cellphone plan for my mother, seeing a Canadian institution that mostly works and is mostly good for the consumer is a welcome breath of fresh air.

At my bank interac e-transfer costs $1.50 a pop but paper checks are free and unlimited. It boggles the mind.

Only if you're still tied to the notion that prices are proportional to costs. e-transfers are more convenient for consumers, so they can charge more for them.

Re: Square Cash

#222

The most stunning part of this is the "free" part. The Durbin amendment regulates the cost of debit transactions over the Visa/Mastercard network. It's $0.22 + 0.05%. Mossberg reports that Square is planning to monetize via "premium options" like international transfers. But still, $0.22+ is a lot to lose every time someone uses your mass-market service. Good thing they raised $341M of VC money. Who said the dot com…

my guess is the '1-2 days' for you to get your cash is how they are monetizing it. Sure, a poster above got $1 almost instantly, but as volume increases, 1-2 days in some form of investment vehicle will add up.

Re: Square Cash

#223
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say dot com got anything wrong. I'm saying raising hundreds of millions of VC dollars and practically giving it away is a dot com era strategy. Remember when PayPal paid out a $20 referral bonus for each new customer? Yeah, those days.

If you say dotcom, the association is over-investing, ridiculously irrational valuation of companies/users/hits, pets.com, bankruptcy, find-the-bigger-fool, etc.

Dotcom days also implies flawed business models that are unlikely to ever be profitable for the company, nevermind investors. I think it was a relevant use of the word considering the point of abalone's argument.

Re: Square Cash

#224

The most stunning part of this is the "free" part. The Durbin amendment regulates the cost of debit transactions over the Visa/Mastercard network. It's $0.22 + 0.05%. Mossberg reports that Square is planning to monetize via "premium options" like international transfers. But still, $0.22+ is a lot to lose every time someone uses your mass-market service. Good thing they raised $341M of VC money. Who said the dot com…

my guess is the '1-2 days' for you to get your cash is how they are monetizing it. Sure, a poster above got $1 almost instantly, but as volume increases, 1-2 days in some form of investment vehicle will add up.

They'd want to be making returns north of 20% per year just to offset the fees alone if the numbers abalone outlined are correct.

Edit: to elaborate on how I calculated that:

1. We don't know transaction size so I just focused on the 0.05% transaction fee. Obviously if transaction sizes are small, the fixed element of fee is higher as a proportion of the amount held for 1-2 days so the required return to break even is much higher.

2. If the transaction fee is 0.05%, $1 transferred turns into $0.9995

3. Square is sending $1 to the recipient. Therefore to break even, it must turn 0.9995 into $1.00 in the 1-2 days it holds the cash for.

4. To do that in 1 day, it must earn a return that is roughly equal to 20% annualized. So the annual return is (0.9995 x 20) = 0.1995. The daily return is 0.1995/365 = roughly 0.0005.

5. Adding the return of 0.0005 to the $1 brings you back to the $1 that Square sends on to the recipient. So they break even if they are earning 20% a year on the cash they hold before it gets sent on to the recipient.

Note the required return to break even is lower if they hold the cash for 2 days. However I'd guess they don't because one of the banks along the way probably hold it for at least half that time. Also, even if they do hold it for 2 days, you still have to overcome the fixed cost, so that moves the required return back towards my 'north of 20%' figure.

PS - since the Square guys are obviously smart, I'm sure they've done the above math so I'd question whether they really are paying these kinds of fees on each transaction. However if they are, Abalone's dotcom days comment is entirely correct.

Re: Square Cash

#225

Do Interac email transfers not work in the US? They're pretty much the same thing: send money to an email recipient who then clicks a link to deposit it in their account. I'm surprised that this is big news, and that it seemingly doesn't exist down south.

I thought the same thing.

Email money transfers? I've been doing them through my bank for years. It's incredibly simple.

I guess this says something about the state of innovation and technology; there are gaps, even in the mainstream between neighboring countries whose cultures are nearly identical. By finding those technological gaps, you can impress a lot of people.

Re: Square Cash

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? Why would _anyone_ design a system like this? In Australia, the equivalent is EFT (Electronic Funds Transfer). You can deposit money to anyone's account by telling the bank their BSB (Bank/State/Branch number) and their account number; however this is not sufficient information to withdraw money. To withdraw money: 1. at a physical bank branch: a. you put your credit/debit card in a POS terminal and…

> Are you serious? Why would _anyone_ design a system like this? Because it's descended from writing simple letters of credit (and by this I literally mean a letter that says "Hey bank, pay John here $15 out of my account kthx"), and giant ancient heavily regulated institutions are terrified of change. The system wasn't designed exactly, it just sort of evolved

Also, the US has a very weak culture of consumer protection and regulation; solutions that require co-operation between competing entities are much harder to get off the ground. See the ACA software mess.

Re: Square Cash

#227
There's a similar thing in Sweden, called Swish (https://www.getswish.se/). But it's a cooperation between banks, and you link it with your phone number, the transfer is instant, you have to identify using something called Bank ID.

Square Cash seems nice, but I prefer the approach of Swish.

Re: Square Cash

#229
Yet another US only payment option. I get it, but at least state it somewhere so people like me don't get excited and then suddenly disappointed.

Re: Square Cash

#230
Not talking about the product for a moment. There are a lot of not-so-great "flat design" websites out there, but Square Cash's is one of the best I've seen. I keep seeing these loud sites with full-width graphics and animations on everything. This is how it should be done. And responsive to boot!
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