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Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

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Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#91
post #16
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, the idea that someone should buy food for their kid rather than a big screen TV is extremely paternalistic.

Do you object to a specific part of the research methodology in the article, or are you just showing your classism off for fun?

I actually support things like cash payouts and negative income tax.

I wanted to trigger the discussion of paternalism using a stereotype to see what kinds of arguments for paternalism emerged.

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#92
I've only read the article and not the underlying paper, but it seems to be saying a $400 grant yields an average annual return of 40% - it would seem that would make it viable as a loan scheme rather than a grant scheme (maybe in terms of a loan that automatically gets written off after X years so it's a pseudo-grant).

It's important to note also that they're using the group effect that are also popular among microlenders, in that the grants are made to groups of individuals so you'll have some degrees of the individuals checking up on each other.

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#93
I wonder if this could be applied to rich countries: give $500/month to each adult citizen. No questions asked. Unlike many existing programs for the very poor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_minimum_d'insertion) it would not dissuade them from working (if you work you just earn more) and would be really easy to administrate (there are no criteria).

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#94
post #93

I wonder if this could be applied to rich countries: give $500/month to each adult citizen. No questions asked. Unlike many existing programs for the very poor ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_minimum_d'insertion ) it would not dissuade them from working (if you work you just earn more) and would be really easy to administrate (there are no criteria).

Wouldn't that just cause inflation?

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#95
post #93

I wonder if this could be applied to rich countries: give $500/month to each adult citizen. No questions asked. Unlike many existing programs for the very poor ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_minimum_d'insertion ) it would not dissuade them from working (if you work you just earn more) and would be really easy to administrate (there are no criteria).

You would need to make living on $6000 a year practical as well. It's not as hard as people think, as if you're not working you don't need to locate yourself in a city or bother with transportation, but there are structural changes that need to be made. The big two are probably housing deregulation (consisting of (i) seriously scaling back zoning laws and (ii) removing laws limiting occupation density) and fixing the health care system (no easy answers there). It's a complicated issue.

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is feeding into a prevalent and false narrative that persons in poverty are all drug addicts or welfare queens. Christian Parenti really sums it up well when he describes American views on poverty in his book, The Soft Cage: "In a society that denies the true causes of poverty—low wages and structural unemployment—the poor necessarily show up as objects of mystery to be examined, measured, interrogated,…

This is silly - the poor are not unemployed, structurally or otherwise. To be unemployed one must be looking for work, which most American poor are not. http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2011.pdf Your source [2] also disagrees with you. When Florida implemented drug testing, they spent $46k to identify 108 drug users (presumably taking them off the welfare rolls). Unless welfare costs less than $425/person, that's a net sa…

That pdf says nothing about who is or is not looking for work.

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#97
post #94
post #93

I wonder if this could be applied to rich countries: give $500/month to each adult citizen. No questions asked. Unlike many existing programs for the very poor ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_minimum_d'insertion ) it would not dissuade them from working (if you work you just earn more) and would be really easy to administrate (there are no criteria).

Wouldn't that just cause inflation?

Not if you finance it through taxes and elimination of other programs for the very poor like food stamps.

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#98
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is silly - the poor are not unemployed, structurally or otherwise. To be unemployed one must be looking for work, which most American poor are not. http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2011.pdf Your source [2] also disagrees with you. When Florida implemented drug testing, they spent $46k to identify 108 drug users (presumably taking them off the welfare rolls). Unless welfare costs less than $425/person, that's a net sa…

That pdf says nothing about who is or is not looking for work.

Let me quote the first paragraph, which you apparently didn't read:

...46.2 million people...lived below the official poverty level...10.4 million individuals were among the “working poor”  in 2011... The  working poor are persons who spent at least 27 weeks in  the labor force (that is, working or looking for work )

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#99
post #86
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only point is that to me, giving cash to Kenyans and giving cash to beggars seems morally equivalent. Not saying you shouldn't do either but I do think if you give Kenyans cash but have qualms with giving beggars money, well I don't think that makes much sense.

I think the idea is to give the money to random people (not necessarily the ones who needed). A beggar is not exactly random.

No, the opposite. Give Directly finds the very poorest people in a village (as judged by the materials their house is made from), and the Uganda study used self-selected entrepreneurs. Both of these were trying to maximize the impact of each dollar by giving the money to the people for whom it would do the most good.

Giving money to a beggar in the US would not do nearly as much good, both because the US has excellent safety nets (hospitals that will treat you, food banks) and because everything in the US costs more (so you can provide less of it to someone in need per dollar).

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#100
post #93

I wonder if this could be applied to rich countries: give $500/month to each adult citizen. No questions asked. Unlike many existing programs for the very poor ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_minimum_d'insertion ) it would not dissuade them from working (if you work you just earn more) and would be really easy to administrate (there are no criteria).

See http://www.nbcnews.com/business/2-800-month-every-adult-it-c... -- Switzerland is voting on doing exactly this (with much more money involved!).

The key word here is "basic income", and it's surprisingly liked by economists, as I understand it.

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