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Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

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Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#31

Post by nostromo »

hristov wrote: post #27

The problem with cash grants is something that does not show up when there is a Columbia professor watching things. And that is that the money gets stolen. Many poor countries suffer from corrupt callous and cruel leadership. And this means that the people in power tend to steal from the poor. Thus, if some organization tries to give cash to the poor there is a high likelihood that the money will be stolen and sent t…

Don't you have it exactly backwards?

I've heard (from people like Andrew Mwenda) that say that Western aid to African governments ends up not helping the citizenry and just props up bad governments.

Aid that completely bypasses corrupt governments and goes directly to citizens seems to be less likely to be stolen by middlemen. If you look at Give Directly (http://www.givedirectly.org/faqs.php) they send cash directly to a person's cell phone, and their audits have shown very little money being lost to corruption.

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#32

Post by up_and_up »

ekianjo wrote: post #28
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that different from the situation we have here in America. A lot of people are working low-wage dead-end jobs because they their kids or siblings need to eat. With only a little bit of extra money those people could stop working their jobs, learn new skills, and get better jobs.

People are not starving in America.Please visit poor countries before drawing parrallels.

Sorry, but people are starving in America: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/hunger-children-america-slow...

Are you aware that many kids in America grow up without access to even a basic grocery store and decent nutrition? Starvation can be slow and steady.

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#33

Post by waps »

ma2rten wrote: post #20
breischl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition... To get the cash, applicants had to form a group with others in their village and submit a proposal showing how they planned to use the money It's not clear how selective they were, but it does sound more involved than just "fill out this form and get your cash." So it's a group of people that were selected, or at least self-selected, for some minimum amount of initiative and ambition. The title of the…

In addition... The simple fact that someone came after those people to check what they did with their money, for the purpose of the research, probably influenced the result (at least if they knew or suspected that beforehand). If they said they would use the money for business, but then instead spend it alcohol and gambling, that would be very embarrassing. If on the other hand, a program like exists this for a long…

I think you've just hit the nail on the head. Gifts in this program have the same function as loans would traditionally have : they are supposed to be invested in improving one's life. They were obviously not free, the money was traded for promises that carry a social cost if one doesn't deliver.

A basic income would have no such effect. If it's enough to live on, why would everyone invest it in becoming a better and more capable individual ? (note the question is not "anyone", but "everyone". The aggregate effect of free money is what will determine the outcome. Not what exceptional individuals might achieve with it, but what a lazy drunkard would achieve with it matters)

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#34

Post by jasonlmk »

A similar research based on the land lotteries in Georgia in 1832 and in Oklahoma in 1901 showed that outright increases in wealth (i.e., winning the lottery) had little or no effect on generational wealth. There was also another similar research on the land lotteries which showed negative effect on generational wealth.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/SITE/archive/SITE_2010/segment...

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#35

Post by cjbprime »

up_and_up wrote: post #32
ekianjo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are not starving in America.Please visit poor countries before drawing parrallels.

Sorry, but people are starving in America: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/hunger-children-america-slow... Are you aware that many kids in America grow up without access to even a basic grocery store and decent nutrition? Starvation can be slow and steady.

Yes, but the starving child in Boston in your article went to a nearby world-class hospital where he was given free food.

Poverty exists in the US; extreme poverty (living under the purchasing power equivalent of USD $1.25 per day) is extremely rare (http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/rwss/docs/2010/chapter2.pdf

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#36

Post by argumentum »

logicallee wrote: post #4
argumentum wrote: post #2

This is only "surprising" to those who think they know how other people should live. I've always favored this approach (a minimum income, or negative income tax .. whatever you want to call it) as a replacement to all other forms of welfare. If I am to spend my tax money on those in need, I do not want more than half of it going to upper middle class bureaucrats and middle class administrators.

I think with that last sentence you mean 80%. 20% payout to the end beneficiary is quite common.

I figured it was more like 80-90%, but didn't want to take the time to look up #s, hence .. "more than half".

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#37

Post by up_and_up »

cjbprime wrote: post #35
up_and_up wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but people are starving in America: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/hunger-children-america-slow... Are you aware that many kids in America grow up without access to even a basic grocery store and decent nutrition? Starvation can be slow and steady.

Yes, but the starving child in Boston in your article went to a nearby world-class hospital where he was given free food. Poverty exists in the US; extreme poverty (living under the purchasing power equivalent of USD $1.25 per day) is extremely rare ( http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/rwss/docs/2010/chapter2.pdf

Extremely rare? 313900000 * 0.005 = 1,569,500 people living on $1.25/day in the USA?

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#38

Post by pmorici »

argumentum wrote: post #2

This is only "surprising" to those who think they know how other people should live. I've always favored this approach (a minimum income, or negative income tax .. whatever you want to call it) as a replacement to all other forms of welfare. If I am to spend my tax money on those in need, I do not want more than half of it going to upper middle class bureaucrats and middle class administrators.

How do you feel about things like Social Security Disability benefits? By most accounts there is some very real abuse of that social welfare program that could cause it to not be there for people who legitimately need it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50156574n

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#39

Post by jlgreco »

up_and_up wrote: post #37
cjbprime wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the starving child in Boston in your article went to a nearby world-class hospital where he was given free food. Poverty exists in the US; extreme poverty (living under the purchasing power equivalent of USD $1.25 per day) is extremely rare ( http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/rwss/docs/2010/chapter2.pdf

Extremely rare? 313900000 * 0.005 = 1,569,500 people living on $1.25/day in the USA?

That seems like a reasonable definition of "extremely rare". Platinum is extremely rare, several hundred tons of it are mined every year. (A number that sounds incredibly heavy, but pales in comparison to the numbers of common metals.)

Half a percentage is "extremely rare" compared to numbers like 50%. Most people in America have absolutely no experience with the sort of poverty that is nearly inescapable in many underdeveloped counties.

If you can't get over the "~1.5 million” thing, just consider that this is comparable to the poplulation of The Bronx.

Re: Research Finds Outright Grants of Cash are an Effective Form of Aid to the Poor

#40

Post by jbooth »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #25
asperous wrote: post #10

I think the context is super important here. "gave cash to groups of young people so they could learn a trade and start their own businesses." In Uganda. These people were pretty much starving before. “These were mostly farmers who had work 10 to 20 hours a week and earned about $1 a day," With different people, culture, attitudes, environment the effect might be completely different in America, for example.

I don't think it's that different from the situation we have here in America. A lot of people are working low-wage dead-end jobs because they their kids or siblings need to eat. With only a little bit of extra money those people could stop working their jobs, learn new skills, and get better jobs.

Of course it's incredibly different. I won't trivialize how shitty life in the ghetto is if you don't trivialize how shitty life as a subsistence farmer surrounded by simmering ethnic conflicts.
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