Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Because it needs to be said

blogjustine.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

581–590 of 635 posts

Re: Because it needs to be said

#581

Post by dwaltrip »

pearjuice wrote: post #240
steveklabnik wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about you, but I do not want to live in a society where women cannot go to a bar without an expectation of being sexually assaulted. Sounds like a bug.

In the society I breathe daily, women generally do not get sexually assaulted when they go to a bar (I don't know the statistics). However, I quote: "At some point, it was suggested that I do a body shot. I’ve never done one in my life but at the insistence of many people, attendees and bartenders I decided to lay on the bar." this is an invitation to sexual behavior. "A body shot is a shot of alcohol (such as tequil…

Blaming the victim eh? "She totally asked for it! Everyone knows that body shots have to be followed by forced public fingering"...

Get a grip man.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#582

Post by pearjuice »

icecreampain wrote: post #461
mst wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words to the effect of "she was asking for it" are uncivilised and to my mind an uncivil response is at that point not just acceptable but important. I had two points there - the first was that pearjuice was plain wrong. The second was that pearjuice's attitude does not belong in civilised society and that anybody holding such an attitude should be defenestrated with extreme prejudice. I respect your opinion that my…

> I had two points there - the first was that pearjuice was plain wrong. The second was that pearjuice's attitude does not belong in civilised society and that anybody holding such an attitude should be defenestrated with extreme prejudice. I agree with you completely on that point. People like pearjuice do not belong in our civilised society. Seeing pearjuice victim blame is disgusting, and he should be taught a les…

Ad hominem is really a problematic point on HN and it seems to be rewarded by these inner social circles. It is truly demotivating.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#583

Post by zequel »

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #21

This is a body shot for those who don't know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBPT6AUnUnI | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKP99wrx6Sc | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBbz6hhoKbg Open-Minded Alternative-Understanding Scenario time: You're a male with your male gay friends at a gay bar. They're taller than you as they are gays of the muscle bear variety. You're the only one who's straight but you want to show them you…

That's gotta be the WORST analogy I've ever read. I can't imagine a heterosexual man doing a body shot or a pole dance in a gay bar. That's the most unrealistic situation I could ever imagine. As for the fingering any woman in a bar (!?), even if it was with consent, it'd be utterly disgusting.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#584

Post by DigitalJack »

GeorgeOrr wrote: post #89
DigitalJack wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is what did they witness? A girl doing a bodyshot, followed by the man who took the shot kissing her and getting hands on. In this post I don't see anything indicating she tried to reject these moves. I don't see how somebody could tell it was unwanted from a third person perspective.

By "getting hands on" to be clear you are referring to his fondling her backside and front. Just to be clear, what those witness saw was molestation in progress. Thank god one of them gave her a chance to escape. Thank god there was one person not like you there.

Now that is clearly uncalled for. I wasn't there, I have no idea how I would have reacted and neither do you. I am responding to what was written in the account.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#585

Post by banister »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #220
hrvbr wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my first impression is that she's very fragile and passive. "Assault" is a too strong word if the guy let her go when she left for a smoke. And why didn't she punch the aggressor? Friends can be punched too. Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. If someone uses his physical force against us, we're not supposed to just say "please stop" as if the guy were respectful enough to obey. And she went back to…

> And why didn't she punch the aggressor? She was in shock. > Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. Why does it matter if she resisted? Is it not rape if you don't resist?

Why are you talking about rape? I thought rape required penetrative sex, this is a sexual assault isn't it?

Re: Because it needs to be said

#586

Post by zequel »

chris_wot wrote: post #504
jacobtracey wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, no; sorry man. I thought his joke was pretty funny.

Each to their own. I saw it as insulting and aggressive; worse - it added little to the discussion. All I could think when I read the comment was that the poster was a bit of a pratt. I suppose humour applied through ridicule of another is always funniest when you aren't the recipient.

I think his point might be that once you reach adulthood, you're responsible for your actions, such as how much you drink. Hotels and conferences expect you to control how much you drink. You're really blaming the conference for making you drink too much?? Who held you down and poured the champagne down your throat?

Re: Because it needs to be said

#587

Post by dwaltrip »

What happened is quite awful, but I'm amazed that no one has talked about an important issue: how much her support group failed her if no one was willing to talk her regularily or even suggest that she go to therapy. And they all thought the way to help her through the rest of conference was by getting her as drunk as often as possible? WTF? I think a lot problems in the following months could have been lessened with some proper support, therapy, and dealing with the alcohol issues.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#588

Post by binarycleric »

brazzy wrote: post #287
erikpukinskis wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why didn't she punch the aggressor? She was in shock. > Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. Why does it matter if she resisted? Is it not rape if you don't resist?

> Is it not rape if you don't resist? It's not rape if the other person has no way of telling that you want them to stop.

I know we're all programmers here but stop trying to build rules and logic around this. We all (should) have the common sense to understand when something is rape and when something is not. There is no trigger, there is no conditional, there is no callback, it just is and people who fail to understand this make me sick.

A number of people's lives have been forever changed by the recently surfaced actions and instead of focusing on the "what ifs" and the hypothetical situations we focus on fixing the underlying problems within our community.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#590

Post by DanBC »

toasterlovin wrote: post #575
Dylan16807 wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it seems an order of magnitude more important to fire the person than to publicly acknowledge his wrongdoing. I would be extremely upset if they had done it the other way around, so I don't think this counts as sweeping it under the rug. Do you think the public acknowledgement is more important than the firing? Is the problem that they were only 80% behind her instead of 100%? Is it something else? I really wa…

False dichotomy. Not either-or. Both.

They fired him.

They appear to have provided support to her.

She could go to the police and file a report. It's traumatic, and unlikely to have any effect.

But it is not possible for the firm to say "We sacked Bob because he sexually assaulted one of our staff".

Post reply on HN