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Because it needs to be said

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Re: Because it needs to be said

#571

Post by steveklabnik »

general_failure wrote: post #528
steveklabnik wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often, people will think less of you. I have a 'straightedge' tattoo on my back, and even though I'd go to bars, never mention it, and just drink Coke, others felt that by not drinking I was judging them. I lost friends over it. I drink now. Possibly too much.

Seems like people like you are easily convinced to do anything. And promptly blame others when bad things happen. Best of luck.

Like most things in life, the answer is much more complex than that. I decided that having experiences was a better life choice than teetoataling. I don't blame anyone for my decision to drink, it was a conscious choice on my part.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#572

Post by throwaway86 »

wilkie wrote: post #569
throwaway86 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has a point, though. Between you, sneak, and wilkie, I can see why people are hesitant to discuss this topic openly. It's almost like the three of you are looking for a fight on this topic and ready for all comers. Like if it weren't for you three, we would all be woefully misinformed about sexual assault. There are opinions on this topic that differ from yours and in almost every one, I can find two or more of yo…

Have you seen this thread? Not only are people misinformed about what constitutes sexual assault, but on top of that they are ignorant of what constitutes consent . It's quite honestly TERRIFYING.

Hey, look who's here! Also, I am more terrified of absolutists like yourself than anything else I've seen in this thread. Period.

Tell me, are you refreshing this thread constantly?

Re: Because it needs to be said

#573

Post by steveklabnik »

Dalkore wrote: post #555
steveklabnik wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain to me how posting a factual account of a situation is 'vigilante justice'?

Factual, are we 100% certain? If you are going to attached these type of title to this person, we had better be damn certain. This is why we have a legal system and not mob rule based on emotions. If he is guilty then so be it but until we know for sure, we should hold judgement. Also she mentions at the beginning that she is just writing this to get it out there, sounds rushed.

Two witnesses corroborate her story, and Joe says he refuses to talk about it.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#574

Post by throwaway86 »

steveklabnik wrote: post #567
throwaway86 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has a point, though. Between you, sneak, and wilkie, I can see why people are hesitant to discuss this topic openly. It's almost like the three of you are looking for a fight on this topic and ready for all comers. Like if it weren't for you three, we would all be woefully misinformed about sexual assault. There are opinions on this topic that differ from yours and in almost every one, I can find two or more of yo…

> let other people speak. How do my comments prevent anyone else's speech?

Take a look at sneak's other comment nearby in this thread. Yours are more civil at least, but in the wake of these assault broadcasts there is always a knuckles fight like this.

Everybody has an opinion. By spending hours of your time shooting down every opinion that differs from your own, you are working toward an environment where yours is the lone voice. Silencing dissent, basically.

As I said though, your actions are the most tame of the three I mentioned. In these threads, people who disagree with the "burn him!" mentality end up aflame themselves; victim blamer! rape apologist! silence the victim! asshole! It's all part of the same push against disagreement on this unique, taboo topic.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#575

Post by toasterlovin »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #469
bowlofpetunias wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I respect the point you're trying to make, it's only a part of the problem, by far not the entire problem. And what I find borderline offensive is that you completely ignore the fact that the company pretty much swept the whole incident under the rug. This in my opinion has had a much more immediate effect on the victim's sense of self worth than any deeper cultural issue. Basically she was given to believe…

To me, it seems an order of magnitude more important to fire the person than to publicly acknowledge his wrongdoing. I would be extremely upset if they had done it the other way around, so I don't think this counts as sweeping it under the rug. Do you think the public acknowledgement is more important than the firing? Is the problem that they were only 80% behind her instead of 100%? Is it something else? I really wa…

False dichotomy. Not either-or. Both.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#576

Post by wilkie »

fingerfood wrote: post #434
gregd wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So on top of a lack of reading comprehension, we have people blaming the victim ? Is it any wonder women find it hard to exist in the tech world?

You exaggerated with 1. 2 was explicitly stated. For 3, fingering does not imply penetration. What was that again about reading comprehension? Are you implying that I blamed the victim? What was that again about reading comprehension?

um. well. basic anatomy: fingering does imply penetration. and it is clearly sexual assault regardless.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#577

Post by pearjuice »

gregd wrote: post #541
Dalkore wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two words: Personal Responsibility. The fact she admit she froze up would in my mind maybe give the person the benefit of the doubt that he was not trying to be purposely malicious. That is the real issue here when we want to throw around terms like "sexual assault". What matters is the intent of the person when they commit these acts not that technical some sexual contact was made that was not invited when two adult…

What was Joe's personal responsibility? Why do people insist on bringing Justine's personal responsibility into this equation but not Joe's? He was in a position of power over her which most firms with an HR department are very specific about. Two words: Rape Culture. Rape culture exists when we continue to question the motives of the victim. The fact that many of you continue to excuse his behavior and question hers…

So now Joe is responsible? For her? When did she shift from being a strong independent woman who needs no man to having someone be responsible for her? I thought she was a grown up woman able to make her own choices and stand for her own actions but now she isn't responsible? I know her writing doesn't really lie about the quality of that responsibility (pouring yourself drunk in a work week, que) but she IS responsible for her own actions and everything which is achieved by this blog post is due to her own actions.

Please don't tell me that her not ever able to obtain a job is Joe's fault. Look at what she writes and smears on the Internet for the public view. Unless she goes to work at some feminist induced Ruby startup where this is accepted and even stimulated, this trail of shit smearing will haunt the search engine index pages for years.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#579

Post by pearjuice »

untog wrote: post #440
pearjuice wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a lot of ad hominem we got there. You may want to slow down a bit and take things easy. >Just because she consented to the shot part does NOT mean she was offering anything else "A body shot is a shot of alcohol (such as tequila) that is consumed from a person's body, usually from erogenous zones such as the navel or the breasts." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_play#Alcohol ) Reading further: "An erogeno…

You're forgetting that they pressured her to do it. So, socially pressure someone into doing something sexually submissive = she's fair game to go further? Yeah. That's sick.

They physically assaulted her and pinned her down on the bar? What I have read translates to her being an independent woman who voluntarily rolled her shirt up and decided to climb on the bar.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#580

Post by lawnchair_larry »

jankymess wrote: post #509
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #372

I feel bad for Joe. What he did was not malicious. He is not an abuser or predator. He did a dumb thing. This story isn't about a rapist or someone who preys on women. It's about a drunk man who thought he was going to score. A man who was becoming increasingly physical with a woman who he was attracted to, and who invited him to do a body shot after he had grabbed her ass. For those who don't know what body shots ar…

This is so fucked on so many levels. Reading the comments here, have brought up one of the major issues I've always had with the technical community -- its inability to empathize. And worse, when it comes to sexual harassment and assault, it's almost as if there's a disincentive to empathize with the victim, resulting in straight-up, outlandish comments that are on par with those of extreme, right-wing talk radio hos…

There is no inability to empathize. The difference is I'm empathizing with both parties. Everyone else wants to burn the guy without a trial.

I disagree with most of your other conclusions and you've mischaracterized most of what I said.

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