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I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

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Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#41

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

Being a Bangladeshi myself and having spent the first two decades of my life there, I can't agree more with the three points you made.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#42

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

The way I answer people that say this is: It's not good enough. Yes, you can come up with all the explanation whatsoever you want to how this is a ~local maxima~ of happiness, but the fact is that we live on a much higher one with tons of disposable income and benefit from their work... so it s not a ~global maxima~ (not even close) so we should do better. What can I say? I'm definitely more to the left than most peo…

> what the hell is wrong with you all, seriously.

What the hell is wrong with you is that you dont understand economics(supply and demand). The world is the way it is and as long as there is a vast supply of workers competing for few jobs the situation is not going to change. No amount of pipe dreaming is going to change that.

I can hear you say minimum wage and regulations. Guess what, while this might improve the situation of those who have a job, it will only make it harder for people who a looking for jobs.

There are no simple solutions but in a world where tens of thousands die of hunger each day having a job and being able to feed yourself is better than nothing.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#43

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

As to your first point I think it is very, very important to keep in mind that this is the best thing available because of Western influence. Long ago, and up until today, Western power and money priced local populations out of being able to afford to buy a piece of their own country.

Out of the dumb luck of currency exchange and local corruption that happened a couple centuries ago the most ancient investment vehicle is no longer available to poor 3rd world populations anymore. Blithely pointing out that this is the best situation available to them without acknowledging that we are the ones who made it the best available situation is excusable, but needs to be corrected.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#44

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

> The reason they don't pay more comes down to simply business principles. The objective of a labor intensive business is to drive costs down the lowest possible amount legally.

This is only true if you take the "corporations are psychopaths" view. Getting away with everything you can under the law and adhering to a fairly obvious social morality are not nearly the same thing. Famously, Oscar Schindler ended up running labor intensive businesses so that he could save the lives of his employees. There are many fair trade businesses that operate in developing economies under similar principles - profit matters, but so do the employees.

That was my only real objection, the rest of what you wrote is great, thanks for the perspective.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#45
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the situation with providing jobs to people who may otherwise have to turn to much more terrible means of providing for themselves, but this is where there is exploitation of their situation by companies and as the end user of much of the products, us as westerners (although we may do little to change it). Factory workers are paid the minimum that the company can get away with, even though we could affor…

All companies, in every nation, pay the minimum they can get away with. In nations with no social structure, very little wealth, and no jobs the choice is not government hand out vs minimum wage, but a very low paying job or starvation. It would appear you would rather these children starve then to allow them to work for enough money to feed themsleves, possibly working up and out of poverty over generations. America…

You seem to be okay with children being crushed to death or burning up in fires from substandard building construction. Construction that is known to be unsafe. It's accepted because it is convenient, not because it's necessary. These factories aren't turning out bare essential materials that are sold for small profit margins. They create luxury items that often have the markings of vapid pop culture and are sold with huge margins. First world countries know these conditions are abhorrent, because we do not allow them, but first would countries do allow the thirst for high profit margins to come at the cost of human lives overseas.

Your inability to understand the depth with which poverty strikes those in the U.S. is astounding. Poverty in the U.S. means that you don't have clothes to wear to school, that the school you go to is underperforming, that you live in a neighborhood where you could get shot, abducted, propositioned for drugs. It means going hungry on a day-to-day basis. It means the power being shutoff. It means probably not having a parent in the home because they are either absent or working two or three jobs. It often means the environment you grow up in is likely to be rife with psychological, physical or substance abuse. It means taking two hour bus rides both ways to get to a minimum wage job. It means no or substandard healthcare. It could mean living in a car, on the street or being under threat of such outcomes.

The videos linked are pretty disgusting and make libertarians sound like horrible people. Maybe you should also put some videos up about how libertarians justify slavery or indentured servitude because the slave or servant would have died if they weren't being exploited. Maybe an article could be written about the exploited workers in Dubai, and how it's still mutually beneficial to have their rights stripped of them, pay held for months, because the alternative is possible starvation in their home country.

Raising awareness and demanding better standards can improve conditions. If you are coming from the point of view that there is no problem with sweatshops and things don't need to change, then it's likely workers will continue to be exploited. How long have China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Malaysia had sweatshops? Why haven't sweatshops brought supposed prosperity to these countries yet? How many generations more will have to endure sweatshops and possible death? No one should have to put up with a sudden and horrible death so "Keep Calm Carry On" shirts can make it on to Target store shelves.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#47

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

[deleted]

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I answer people that say this is: It's not good enough. Yes, you can come up with all the explanation whatsoever you want to how this is a ~local maxima~ of happiness, but the fact is that we live on a much higher one with tons of disposable income and benefit from their work... so it s not a ~global maxima~ (not even close) so we should do better. What can I say? I'm definitely more to the left than most peo…

Your position is deeply irrational and unrealistic. It may give you some sense of moral comfort, but it has zero application to the real world, and is the fodder of a million asinine Facebook forwards. People aren't "justifying" anything, they're stating actual realities of the world. 30 years ago South Korea was the sweatshop of the world. Today it is an economic powerhouse with largely first world living conditions…

> Countries don't just skip that stage in their evolution, short of some mythical utopia project, however much we might like to think they can.

However, countries cannot simply follow other countries' recipes for "success". Unbridled optimism hurts. Economic development (not to be confused with economic growth) is not an inevitable process. There are many pitfalls and it is a constant effort to stay on the path towards economic development to reach a point where you become a developed nation and can look forward to growth.

There is no simple blue print for guaranteed success. What worked for South Korea might not work for Bangladesh.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#49

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

("... Most of the owners could obviously afford to pay employees better given the incredible amounts of wealth that the factory owners have accumulated and having gone to school with some of their children, I know quite a few factory owners personally. The reason they don't pay more comes down to simply business principles. The objective of a labor intensive business is to drive costs down the lowest possible amount legally. That is what they do.")

That's a fancy way of saying that they are greedy. Which is what "business practice" really is. Pay your workers crap and reap the rewards. Meanwhile the society as a whole hasn't benefited at all (except more low-wage work struggling to live life). But the owners have. Bully for them.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#50

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

I don't automatically feel outrage when I hear about someone aspiring to work a sewing machine. But when I hear about the conditions, and how many hours are worked, then the outrage comes. After all, with that many hours bent over, sitting on the floor, the body is put under a lot of stress it wasn't evolved to handle. That young girl may become crippled by her work and be unable to continue. At that point, will her job support her disability? I think not. And when that happens, will her outcome be better than the outcome of women who didn't have the benefit of her job? Probably not. The fact is that if and when this girl slows down at her work, she will be replaced by someone faster, and tossed to the curb, at which point she may or may not be sufficiently viable to marry a rickshaw operator.

So I would add:

4. What are the 'first world' governments' roles?

To encourage international trade for goods that are generated from countries with healthy labor laws. The first round of countries that went through the Industrial Revolution didn't have the (potential) benefit of other, post-industrial countries that could at least provide outside pressure to prevent corporations from exploiting people.

Unfortunately that potential benefit is a drawback more often than not, because there isn't strong international pressure to enact good labor laws. When such an environment doesn't exist, it is difficult for a country to bootstrap its own laws, because such laws may raise the price of goods relative to other countries.

There should be an environment where a country without labor protections finds that it can't trade with other countries.

Of course such an international environment alone won't guarantee improvements. But it's a start. In this age of multinational corporations, its an enormous form of leverage for a company to say, "Oh, you're forcing me to pay $10 an hour? I'll just take my factory and go over here..." Such leverage can be reversed: "Oh, your labor laws don't meet U.N. standards? We'll move our money over here..."

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