Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Because it needs to be said

blogjustine.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 635 posts

Re: Because it needs to be said

#461

Post by icecreampain »

mst wrote: post #369
Udo wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because she consented to the shot part does NOT mean she was offering anything else. This part a lot of people can agree with, myself included. The rest, not so much. I understand and I share the sense that pearjuice's opinion is aggravating, but this reaction is not acceptable and, worse, it sabotages your (valid) point. By the way, if you really want to hate someone, go search the comments of the article for…

Words to the effect of "she was asking for it" are uncivilised and to my mind an uncivil response is at that point not just acceptable but important. I had two points there - the first was that pearjuice was plain wrong. The second was that pearjuice's attitude does not belong in civilised society and that anybody holding such an attitude should be defenestrated with extreme prejudice. I respect your opinion that my…

> I had two points there - the first was that pearjuice was plain wrong. The second was that pearjuice's attitude does not belong in civilised society and that anybody holding such an attitude should be defenestrated with extreme prejudice.

I agree with you completely on that point. People like pearjuice do not belong in our civilised society. Seeing pearjuice victim blame is disgusting, and he should be taught a lesson in humility and empathy.

I suggest we make him sew a yellow pear on his clothes, and send him to a empathy training camp.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#462

Post by Perseids »

arrrg wrote: post #217
conformal wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

posting your personal account of someone's crimes against you in a blog is not a fair or reasonable way to deal with what is clearly a very serious matter. it sounds like what happened was awful and these types of incidents are common in many predominantly male professions, e.g. law, finance. i was recently seriously harassed and more-or-less sexually assaulted by an acquaintance's wife at a wedding in a swimming poo…

Posting the truth is never problematic. If what she wrote is indeed true then I cannot for the life of me see why writing that is in any way wrong. If you want to say what she did is problematic then you have to argue that she is lying. Plain and simple. Do you do that? It is obviously not an option to demand of victims to shut up about what happened to them. But that is in essence what you are demanding. Sure, if wh…

> If you want to say what she did is problematic then you have to argue that she is lying. Plain and simple. Do you do that?

Can we stop having these black or white discussions?

After more then half a year, there is no such thing as the truth. Even if the whole thing was on tape we cannot piece together what was going on in their heads at the time.

It seems that every time some case of harassment hits the news people partaking in the discussion are either branded as blaming the victim or branded as destroying someone's life by defaming the accused. Can't we find some middle ground?

As dissatisfying as it may be, by the very nature of the topic there will never be the one truth to the story, but at least as many views as people were there during the event. We need to find a way to accept this ambiguity lest we will never stop shouting at each other.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#463

Post by general_failure »

thomasmeeks wrote: post #256
downandout wrote: post #168

Her boss should not have even attempted to have a fling with her - that exposes the company to liability, and he was rightly fired. It's pretty obvious that she didn't feel that this was enough punishment for his behavior, and has now publicly named him in an attempt to extract her idea of justice out of the situation. It would be interesting to see if he responds with any kind of legal action, as I imagine that he h…

Given her (and the two other) accounts, this absolutely was sexual battery. A drunk, intimidated, or otherwise incapacitated victim does not give an attacker free reign to do whatever they feel like doing. Drunkenness on the attacker's part is not a defense. If you start touching someone like this, it is not their job to stop you. It is your job to be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, positive that the touch is welcomed.…

If this is indeed the law, its scary. I for one take some Time to realize that someone is not into it. In fact I always put in extra effort to put someone in the mood if they are feeling frigid. I thought this is normal male behavior - a little bit of persistence. I see this in movies all the time. Maybe we need to mark most of the american movies as R.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#464

Post by chris_wot »

fingerfood wrote: post #458
chris_wot wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He stuck his hand down the front of her pants and started fingering her. That is penetration. I don't see how you could interpret it differently. He didn't exaggerate about him forcibly sticking his tongue down her throat. That's what she wrote. You clearly do have a reading comprehension problem!

He didn't exaggerate? You and he must have awfully long tongues! Believe me, I've tried. Fingering may or may not involve penetration. I can't make it any clearer without being explicit. Or, maybe I have a reading comprehension problem.

You have a reading comprehension problem. I'd suggest you stop digging that hole any deeper.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#465

Post by dec0dedab0de »

arrrg wrote: post #452
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #372

I feel bad for Joe. What he did was not malicious. He is not an abuser or predator. He did a dumb thing. This story isn't about a rapist or someone who preys on women. It's about a drunk man who thought he was going to score. A man who was becoming increasingly physical with a woman who he was attracted to, and who invited him to do a body shot after he had grabbed her ass. For those who don't know what body shots ar…

Holy shit. This is the top post? This? This victim blaming bullshit? (Just because you say it’s not victim blaming doesn’t make it not victim blaming.) Consent to one thing (whatever that may be) does not imply consent to another thing. If you fail to make sure consent exists you always run the risk of doing something non-consensual. If that’s a risk you want to take, well, then do it. If you believe in your infallib…

Maybe I missed something, but the power imbalance seemed to be the only issue. If he wasn't her boss, then she wouldn't have been afraid to say no.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#466

Post by arrrg »

Perseids wrote: post #462
arrrg wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting the truth is never problematic. If what she wrote is indeed true then I cannot for the life of me see why writing that is in any way wrong. If you want to say what she did is problematic then you have to argue that she is lying. Plain and simple. Do you do that? It is obviously not an option to demand of victims to shut up about what happened to them. But that is in essence what you are demanding. Sure, if wh…

> If you want to say what she did is problematic then you have to argue that she is lying. Plain and simple. Do you do that? Can we stop having these black or white discussions? After more then half a year, there is no such thing as the truth. Even if the whole thing was on tape we cannot piece together what was going on in their heads at the time. It seems that every time some case of harassment hits the news people…

So, you are saying she is supposed to shut up or what? Or what is the point you are trying to make? You want to muffle her voice? That’s your point, right?

Re: Because it needs to be said

#468

Post by fingerfood »

chris_wot wrote: post #464
fingerfood wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't exaggerate? You and he must have awfully long tongues! Believe me, I've tried. Fingering may or may not involve penetration. I can't make it any clearer without being explicit. Or, maybe I have a reading comprehension problem.

You have a reading comprehension problem. I'd suggest you stop digging that hole any deeper.

I'll stop. I tried fingering some thick skulls. I could not penetrate.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#469

Post by Dylan16807 »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #298
Confusion wrote: post #118

I think there's a deeper cultural problem here: that the behavior of Joe had that much of an impact on Justine's life in the first place. There are women that would experience the same thing, but would not retreat into themselves in this extreme way. There are even women that would shrug it off. However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value.…

Although I respect the point you're trying to make, it's only a part of the problem, by far not the entire problem. And what I find borderline offensive is that you completely ignore the fact that the company pretty much swept the whole incident under the rug. This in my opinion has had a much more immediate effect on the victim's sense of self worth than any deeper cultural issue. Basically she was given to believe…

To me, it seems an order of magnitude more important to fire the person than to publicly acknowledge his wrongdoing. I would be extremely upset if they had done it the other way around, so I don't think this counts as sweeping it under the rug.

Do you think the public acknowledgement is more important than the firing? Is the problem that they were only 80% behind her instead of 100%? Is it something else? I really want to understand your position.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#470

Post by heed »

arrrg wrote: post #452
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #372

I feel bad for Joe. What he did was not malicious. He is not an abuser or predator. He did a dumb thing. This story isn't about a rapist or someone who preys on women. It's about a drunk man who thought he was going to score. A man who was becoming increasingly physical with a woman who he was attracted to, and who invited him to do a body shot after he had grabbed her ass. For those who don't know what body shots ar…

Holy shit. This is the top post? This? This victim blaming bullshit? (Just because you say it’s not victim blaming doesn’t make it not victim blaming.) Consent to one thing (whatever that may be) does not imply consent to another thing. If you fail to make sure consent exists you always run the risk of doing something non-consensual. If that’s a risk you want to take, well, then do it. If you believe in your infallib…

You're right he is victim blaming. Except, he says both parties were victims in their own way.
Post reply on HN