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Because it needs to be said

blogjustine.wordpress.com

281–290 of 635 posts

Re: Because it needs to be said

#281
post #276
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my first impression is that she's very fragile and passive. "Assault" is a too strong word if the guy let her go when she left for a smoke. And why didn't she punch the aggressor? Friends can be punched too. Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. If someone uses his physical force against us, we're not supposed to just say "please stop" as if the guy were respectful enough to obey. And she went back to…

> Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. Yes it is. In fact, not saying "yes" is enough.

> not saying "yes" is enough.

No, it's not.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#282
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

posting your personal account of someone's crimes against you in a blog is not a fair or reasonable way to deal with what is clearly a very serious matter. it sounds like what happened was awful and these types of incidents are common in many predominantly male professions, e.g. law, finance. i was recently seriously harassed and more-or-less sexually assaulted by an acquaintance's wife at a wedding in a swimming poo…

> posting your personal account of someone's crimes against you in a blog is not a fair or reasonable way to deal with what is clearly a very serious matter. Publishing the truth is always fair and appropriate.

    Publishing your recollection of an incident is always fair
    and appropriate.
FTFY.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#283
post #279
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear what you are saying and it sound reasonable... but I just cannot imagine myself asking that question in that situation. Wine, candles, excitement of 'the first time with her' and tenderness... and suddenly I hear myself saying 'can I stick my hand into your panties?' Talk about a mood-killer. Please try to imagine it. If your proposal gets traction I will probably never have sex again. It's a good thing I do n…

If you haven't, in a soft voice, in a comfortable place, in a responsible way ever asked someone if they would like help taking off their pants... you are missing out. It's not that hard. Really. There are lots of reasonable questions that also act as good communication that I really don't want to teach you. Hey! There's a good question to ask next time!

Apples and oranges. It's one thing to ask because you feel like it. It's another thing to have to ask because it's mandatory.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#284
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my first impression is that she's very fragile and passive. "Assault" is a too strong word if the guy let her go when she left for a smoke. And why didn't she punch the aggressor? Friends can be punched too. Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. If someone uses his physical force against us, we're not supposed to just say "please stop" as if the guy were respectful enough to obey. And she went back to…

> And why didn't she punch the aggressor? She was in shock. > Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. Why does it matter if she resisted? Is it not rape if you don't resist?

It was totally an aggression. My point is that she hadn't learn to live in a world where aggressions happen (capitalism maintains most of humanity in poverty, how surprising is it that this world is tough?). She shouldn't have been in shock, she should totally have resisted physically (in this context, sometimes resisting is dangerous) and she should have felt nothing but anger afterwards. Instead we had the story of a little bird who went out of her parent's nest for the first time and got hurt. You can't afford to be fragile and passive if you were born in a battlefield. Children shouldn't just be protected from the violence, they should be trained to survive it. Maybe schools should teach martial arts instead of volleyball.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#285
post #218

I think there's a deeper cultural problem here: that the behavior of Joe had that much of an impact on Justine's life in the first place. There are women that would experience the same thing, but would not retreat into themselves in this extreme way. There are even women that would shrug it off. However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value.…

Yes, my first impression is that she's very fragile and passive. "Assault" is a too strong word if the guy let her go when she left for a smoke. And why didn't she punch the aggressor? Friends can be punched too. Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. If someone uses his physical force against us, we're not supposed to just say "please stop" as if the guy were respectful enough to obey. And she went back to…

I am very sad to read this comment. Instead of writing ten paragraphs, I'll just try to write a little story:

Imagine you are in a building that has suddenly started to shake violently - and in slow motion you realize that this is your first earthquake, you are in a place without good building codes, and this area is capable of intensely destructive earthquakes - you may panic, feel a huge wave of paralyzing confusion, feel your brain flood with adrenaline, forget all your rational thoughts and fall down in shock as shattered glass falls on you and hurts you. Then a friend (who was in a stronger part of the building and didn't panic) finds you and helps you out of the shaking building. Later a person asks - why didn't you just duck under the table? Only idiots get hurt in earthquakes.

Here is also an article that addresses the long list of problems with "why didn't she punch him": http://adainitiative.org/2013/08/why-dont-you-just-hit-him-t...

Re: Because it needs to be said

#286
Joe's behaviour is completely unacceptable. Her treatment at work like some leper again is unacceptable though some this could be attributed to awkwardness on how to broach the subject or if it should be talked about at all.

Two things strike me though:

Shots off of Justine's stomach. The best response I have heard from a girl in a mixed group when asked to do it was "I will do it if you do it first." It turns it from another girl doing shots on the bar to a weird group activity which is silly, not sexual. Obviously a straight up no would suffice, who cares what a drunk person says?

The second thing was how it went down. During a recent stag do a random girl walked over to one of our group and kissed him randomly without warning or anything. The guy pushed her away, recoiled in horror and said with a look of despair "she - put - her - tongue - in - my - mouth!?"

We laughed but seriously, we knew it wasn't consensual, if she went back in we would have pulled her away.

I feel this is the correct response to being jumped on. This or a loud no.

Not reciprocating, then questioning whether the wife would mind is not a no. Standing there awkwardly waiting for it to be over does not convey stop and it doesn't give friends an opportunity to come to the rescue.

Without a no the lack of participation can suggest hesitation. Asking about the wife perhaps reinforces this. "Oh so thats why you are slow getting into it. Don't worry about her." From the outside the lack of no and look of awkwardness could suggest this isn't something you do very often. Not that you want it to stop.

Justine is not at fault in the slightest. Joe forced himself on her. That said I wonder how differently things would have been if she straight up said no or even pushed him away.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#287
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my first impression is that she's very fragile and passive. "Assault" is a too strong word if the guy let her go when she left for a smoke. And why didn't she punch the aggressor? Friends can be punched too. Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. If someone uses his physical force against us, we're not supposed to just say "please stop" as if the guy were respectful enough to obey. And she went back to…

> And why didn't she punch the aggressor? She was in shock. > Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. Why does it matter if she resisted? Is it not rape if you don't resist?

> Is it not rape if you don't resist?

It's not rape if the other person has no way of telling that you want them to stop.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said anything about suing? My main concern is that at these events that responsible alcohol serving is happening. I've no idea why you have such an aggressive tone, but it was uncalled for.

I don't feel I'm being aggressive - can you clarify where you feel the aggression is, and I'll modify my language? I'm concerned for you, and think that taking legal action against VMWare and the venue would send out a powerful message that glasses should not be topped up. Or, if it's not a civil matter, did you consider reporting it to the police?

You must have a problem reading. I'm not taking legal action against VMware. Where do you think I said I was?

As for the aggression - your sarcastic comment about my organs being harvested (???) came off as attacking me.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#289
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why didn't she punch the aggressor? She was in shock. > Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. Why does it matter if she resisted? Is it not rape if you don't resist?

It was totally an aggression. My point is that she hadn't learn to live in a world where aggressions happen (capitalism maintains most of humanity in poverty, how surprising is it that this world is tough?). She shouldn't have been in shock, she should totally have resisted physically (in this context, sometimes resisting is dangerous) and she should have felt nothing but anger afterwards. Instead we had the story of…

easy for you to say

Re: Because it needs to be said

#290
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many times have you penetrated someone without explicitly asking for consent? Many, many times, I'm willing to bet (assuming that you're male).

Then you would be wrong. Never.

Then you have a rather broad definition of "explicitly asking for consent", or very strange relationships.
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