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Because it needs to be said

blogjustine.wordpress.com

21–30 of 635 posts

Re: Because it needs to be said

#21
This is a body shot for those who don't know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBPT6AUnUnI | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKP99wrx6Sc | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBbz6hhoKbg

Open-Minded Alternative-Understanding Scenario time:

You're a male with your male gay friends at a gay bar. They're taller than you as they are gays of the muscle bear variety. You're the only one who's straight but you want to show them you're one of the gang too. You agree to a body shot or a pole dance to show them "hey look I'm not homophobic, I can roll with you guys I can go along with the joke, I'm comfortable around you". One of the muscle bears (beefy, dominant, taller and stronger than you) starts kissing you, sticks his hands down your pants, grabs & squeezes your testicles and fingers your ass. How would you react?

Did you make a bad decision?

Were you asking for anything?

Was it your fault or the muscle bears fault?

Who went too far?

What were your and others' expectations of the situation?

This scenario is specifically designed to help people understand that while Justine did agree to a body-shot, nothing warranted taking things further. The "look but don't touch" rule applies at all times. Then again body shots are impossible to do without someone sucking juice out of your belly button with their mouth. I'm trying to see this from both parties' points of view. On Joe's end, I think a lot of men are trained by society, dating advice, hormones, movies, films, and even other girlfriends, that a man's purpose is to take what he wants, make the first move, initiate dominance and not ask for permission.

From Justine's point of view.... I understand what you were going for. Trying to earn their admiration... I feel bad for you. A body shot, pole dance, strip tease, doesn't warrant kissing, groping, or fingering, period. But honestly, body shots with co-workers is a bit.........unprofessional. Don't ever put yourself in a submissive position emotionally or physically around drunk men to try to prove yourself to them. Men do not respect submission. How is letting them do body shots off you make you one of them? Do they do body shots off each other?

Re: Because it needs to be said

#22
This isn't her fault at all but I have to say this:

Hang around people doing drugs (large amounts of alcohol) and bad things are guaranteed to happen sooner or later.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you are not familiar with this topic, or you would know that going to the police almost never does anything in this situation. Posting a factual account of events is not an "internet mob."

Wow, what was I thinking. You definitely should never, ever, report crimes to the police. Especially if there were two witness bar staff!

It is possible that, in the moment, that would have made a difference. Remember this assault occurred almost a year ago.

Furthermore, I didn't say 'crimes,' I said sexual assault. Again, I am not being abstract: if you talk to anyone who works with sexual assault victims, you know how futile that course of action is.

Let's not forget that lawyers cost money, for example.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#24
We, as a community, are simply incapable of discussing this subject responsibly.[1] Similar stories have been posted before. Some people are outraged at the incident. Others are outraged that the author publicized the incident. Others question the author's account. Others are outraged at the outrage of the second group and/or the skepticism of the third group. Et cetera.

The ultimate result is this: Endless angry comments. Everyone feels rage. All parties mentioned by name (and some unlucky enough to have the same name) wake up to inboxes full of hate mail. Careers are harmed, sometimes permanently.

If you had never read this story, how would the world be different? You would feel slightly happier, and you would have likely spent your time doing something more pleasant. In other words: not different at all outside your own mind.

Unless, of course, you actually did something to help. Even a token gesture would be better than posting an angry comment. Send an email with some nice words in it. Heck, maybe even do something in the real world to help. And instead of jumping on the rage train and telling everyone how angry you are, tell everyone what you did to try to make things better.

1. To be fair, the same is true for almost all online communities.

Edit: It's been an hour since I wrote this comment. So far, nobody has followed my suggestion and said how they've helped this situation. I guess I'll be the first. I sent a short email to Justine. Hopefully her day is a little better because of it.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#25
My ex-girlfriend wrote a blog post similar to this one, accusing me of sexual assault. I volunteered to take a police polygraph test, hired a lawyer and initiated a libel suit. Fortunately, I didn’t need to go further because she suddenly changed my name & her story. But the experience was still stressful and scary. Many commenters vilified me because they assumed her information was true.

Prior to being falsely accused, I didn’t believe in false accusations. I couldn’t believe that anyone would tell a lie so insulting to victims. I still do believe that the vast majority of accusations are true, but I always reserve judgement because I know how it feels to be vilified in a blog post.

I applaud the author for sharing her experiences. This post is eloquent and courageous. Having said that, a blog post is not the right place to seek justice. In fact, the information here may interfere with a trial. I encourage her to delete this post and initiate a criminal trial in order to hold the perpetrator accountable.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you are not familiar with this topic, or you would know that going to the police almost never does anything in this situation. Posting a factual account of events is not an "internet mob."

Wow, what was I thinking. You definitely should never, ever, report crimes to the police. Especially if there were two witness bar staff!

Can we agree that you speak from an idealistic, not realistic, point of view? https://twitter.com/kittystryker/status/388925083559141376

Re: Because it needs to be said

#27
post #10

Sexual assault is a crime, and she should report this to the police and press charges. A blog post isn't going to get justice, but the courts might. Internet mob justice isn't justice.

I don't disagree, but a prosecution is unlikely to undo the damage that was done. Google is more powerful than you may think. This is not an empty gesture.

> This is not an empty gesture.

Neither was the assault.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#29
post #2

The assault was evil enough, but the vilification of Justine in the comments by some makes my blood boil. The best antidote to fight darkness is to bring it out into the light. Thank you, Justine, for your ongoing courage to speak out. I cannot say I understand what you're going through, but I'm sure there are (too many) others out there who do. Surround yourself with friends and supporters who will stand with you. Y…

There's absolutely no excuse for such behaviour - the man should be prosecuted. I wish Justine a lot of luck getting her life back on track.

It's worth mentioning (since the volume of comments doesn't make it obvious) that it appears to be a single commenter doing the vilifying.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you are not familiar with this topic, or you would know that going to the police almost never does anything in this situation. Posting a factual account of events is not an "internet mob."

Wow, what was I thinking. You definitely should never, ever, report crimes to the police. Especially if there were two witness bar staff!

This is the painted lie that her company allowed him to make: http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/

This is the reality. I don't hold too much optimism that the police would somehow solve this problem considering the damage done and the lack of any support to go back to.

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