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Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

joystiq.com

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Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#51

Post by bbx »

Valve's main objective was probably to replicate the keyboard/mouse combo rather than improve or alter the standard joystick gamepad (like the X360 Controller). In the end, it looks like a controller halfway between these 2 types of input.

The main problem with a controller-based "mouse" (and it shows in the video) is that you control the cursor with only your thumb rather than your full hand gently set down on your desktop. I guess we'll never obtain a perfect alternative to the mouse. And the Steam controller will probably leave both joystick users and mouse users somehow frustrated because it tries to be both at the same time. But considering the variety of Steam's library, it was probably Valve's only solution. Anyway, like this comment, everything still remains speculation until you've tried it yourself (for a reasonable amount of time).

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#52

Post by cma »

baby wrote: post #5

I was really skeptical about this and I'm getting more and more skeptical. 1. See how he always lift his right hand thumb to reproduce the same movement, sometimes three times, just to go through the screen (in Civ5). 2. Also the fact that buttons get mapped like a "pie chart" on the trackpads could have been a good idea, but we need buttons. We forget the luxury of having buttons with all those new tactile screens b…

It would be a nice tweak if when you put your thumb all the way to the edge you would get decaying momentum on the cursor while you moved your thumb back into place to swipe the mouse forward again. And if you didn't go all the way to the edge it would stay as it was in the demo.. with some haptic feedback to let you tell the difference. I guess it would ultimately make it feel like having a thumb trackball.

There is no reason a touch pad can't be as accurate and natural as at least a trackball, which could already probably let you play Civ from your couch.. or quake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Yky7WXrwU

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#53

Post by WalterSear »

baby wrote: post #26
gfodor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are you skeptical of? The skepticism previously was that this controller would be unusable. This video shows a person playing PC games with the controller rapidly and with skill. I still want to see a platformer and a fighting game since the best mapping is a little unclear. (Though these a) won't be showstoppers and b) are likely to be workable.) Humans are adaptable and if this controller is reasonably…

> The skepticism previously was that this controller would be unusable. Who really thought Valve making a controller would make an unusable one? This was never a concern. The concern here is that it might work well with FPS, RTS etc... (or good enough)... but might not work as good as button based controllers for other genres.

I don't see this competing with a mouse. "Ratcheting" around your POV with your right thumb would make any FPS intolerable.

However, playing a FPS on anything but a Oculus Rift or equivalent is going to feel quaint in a few months.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#54

Post by gfodor »

PeterisP wrote: post #45
gfodor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are you skeptical of? The skepticism previously was that this controller would be unusable. This video shows a person playing PC games with the controller rapidly and with skill. I still want to see a platformer and a fighting game since the best mapping is a little unclear. (Though these a) won't be showstoppers and b) are likely to be workable.) Humans are adaptable and if this controller is reasonably…

It doesn't show a person playing PC games rapidly - it shows, for example, a common Civ5 action (moving cursor to a position in menu and clicking) being slow and awkward, requiring multiple separate finger movements just to push the cursor from middle of screen to side. It's better than any other couch-options, but the controls in Civ still looked frustrating instead of fun.

He lifts his finger just as much in Portal play as he does in Civ. It's incredibly fast. The ergonomics of this thing make it pretty hard to say that it will be frustrating to track the cursor across the screen just because you have to lift your finger. Think about how you use a trackball. This is basically a trackpad device with the thumb ergonomics of a trackball.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#55

Post by PeterisP »

gfodor wrote: post #54
PeterisP wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't show a person playing PC games rapidly - it shows, for example, a common Civ5 action (moving cursor to a position in menu and clicking) being slow and awkward, requiring multiple separate finger movements just to push the cursor from middle of screen to side. It's better than any other couch-options, but the controls in Civ still looked frustrating instead of fun.

He lifts his finger just as much in Portal play as he does in Civ. It's incredibly fast. The ergonomics of this thing make it pretty hard to say that it will be frustrating to track the cursor across the screen just because you have to lift your finger. Think about how you use a trackball. This is basically a trackpad device with the thumb ergonomics of a trackball.

The last time I touched (or saw) a trackball was a dozen years ago, so it's hard to say - but on any acceptable trackpad its dpi should allow to move across the screen in a single motion, shouldn't it?

I.e., if I move my finger across the whole steam controller right pad, then the sensitivity should be high enough to move across the whole screen in that motion while still allowing enough accuracy to click where I want.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#56

Post by friendcomputer »

PeterisP wrote: post #45
gfodor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are you skeptical of? The skepticism previously was that this controller would be unusable. This video shows a person playing PC games with the controller rapidly and with skill. I still want to see a platformer and a fighting game since the best mapping is a little unclear. (Though these a) won't be showstoppers and b) are likely to be workable.) Humans are adaptable and if this controller is reasonably…

It doesn't show a person playing PC games rapidly - it shows, for example, a common Civ5 action (moving cursor to a position in menu and clicking) being slow and awkward, requiring multiple separate finger movements just to push the cursor from middle of screen to side. It's better than any other couch-options, but the controls in Civ still looked frustrating instead of fun.

He was explicit in that he was demonstrating 1:1 legacy mouse support, presumably there are other options for non-legacy games (and perhaps legacy games too?)

For example, my macbook track pad takes velocity into account. Something like that could make a big difference for covering large distances. I'm withholding judgment until I try one.

But then I play FPS with a trackball now, so it doesn't seem so alien to me.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#57

Post by zobzu »

gfodor wrote: post #21
baby wrote: post #5

I was really skeptical about this and I'm getting more and more skeptical. 1. See how he always lift his right hand thumb to reproduce the same movement, sometimes three times, just to go through the screen (in Civ5). 2. Also the fact that buttons get mapped like a "pie chart" on the trackpads could have been a good idea, but we need buttons. We forget the luxury of having buttons with all those new tactile screens b…

What exactly are you skeptical of? The skepticism previously was that this controller would be unusable. This video shows a person playing PC games with the controller rapidly and with skill. I still want to see a platformer and a fighting game since the best mapping is a little unclear. (Though these a) won't be showstoppers and b) are likely to be workable.) Humans are adaptable and if this controller is reasonably…

i play for leisure with a mouse on a pc and I'm not a pro or anything. Yet, i'm way smoother, faster and accurate at the same time. I mean I can headshot pretty often within 50ms. This guy needs a full second on NON-MOVING targets in counterstrike. He would have zero chance against a mouse user. zero.

Remember that this guy played with the controller for a long time and his job is to make it look like as good as possible.

So yeah, the controller seems ABSOLUTELY fine for a controller (and probably more precise in some cases than a "regular" controller), but please, let's not fool ourselves, this is NOT a PC gaming experience - i.e. this is very far from the level of control a MOUSE provides.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#58

Post by zobzu »

yeukhon wrote: post #34

I get tired of using mouse and keyboard, and the same goes to a controller. It would be nice to play with hands in the air..

I wanna aim with my finger and with zero latency. Heck it's probably possible to hack something like that already in fact. Not sure if we'd be as good as with the mouse as you will lose awareness (hand in front of you = can't see as well)

but it'd be fun.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#59

Post by deletes »

WalterSear wrote: post #53
baby wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The skepticism previously was that this controller would be unusable. Who really thought Valve making a controller would make an unusable one? This was never a concern. The concern here is that it might work well with FPS, RTS etc... (or good enough)... but might not work as good as button based controllers for other genres.

I don't see this competing with a mouse. "Ratcheting" around your POV with your right thumb would make any FPS intolerable. However, playing a FPS on anything but a Oculus Rift or equivalent is going to feel quaint in a few months.

The controller is not competing with a mouse! Valve is trying to replace the standard console controller and it looks like a large improvement over the thumbstick.

If by ratcheting you mean the repeated movements to look around, that is very similar to moving a mouse with a low sensitivity settings.

Re: Valve demonstrates Steam Controller [video]

#60

Post by chc »

PeterisP wrote: post #55
gfodor wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He lifts his finger just as much in Portal play as he does in Civ. It's incredibly fast. The ergonomics of this thing make it pretty hard to say that it will be frustrating to track the cursor across the screen just because you have to lift your finger. Think about how you use a trackball. This is basically a trackpad device with the thumb ergonomics of a trackball.

The last time I touched (or saw) a trackball was a dozen years ago, so it's hard to say - but on any acceptable trackpad its dpi should allow to move across the screen in a single motion, shouldn't it? I.e., if I move my finger across the whole steam controller right pad, then the sensitivity should be high enough to move across the whole screen in that motion while still allowing enough accuracy to click where I wan…

I would be shocked if it couldn't be configured that way.
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