Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Terms of Service update

google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 43 posts

Re: Terms of Service update

#11

Post by peterjmag »

runako wrote: post #9
kylec wrote: post #4

We are updating the Google Terms of Service. The new Terms will go live on November 11, 2013 and you can read them here. Because many of you are allergic to legalese, here’s a plain English summary for your convenience. Why not just write your TOS in plain English, then? Also, if a company supplies both a "legalese" version and a "plain English" version that differ, which one takes precedent?

"Plain English" is the legal equivalent of pseudocode. (By similar reasoning, the courts are analogous to CPUs.) The TOS isn't in plain English for the same reason that Android isn't written in pseudocode: the CPUs won't run it. Also -- pseudocode ignores edge cases, boundary conditions, etc. to make it readable. Production code (and legal documents) can't escape these requirements.

I really like that analogy.

Re: Terms of Service update

#12

Post by codezero »

lawn wrote: post #10
crb wrote: post #5

Diff: https://www.google.com/policies/terms/archive/20120301-20131...

Thank you! Most interesting bit imo: "If you have a Google Account, we may display your Profile name, Profile photo, and actions you take on Google or on third-party applications connected to your Google Account (such as +1’s, reviews you write and comments you post) in our Services, including displaying in ads and other commercial contexts. We will respect the choices you make to limit sharing or visibility settings…

The link is immediately available under the same text in the actual TOS: https://plus.google.com/settings/endorsements?hl=en

From: http://www.google.com/policies/terms/changes/

It's very clear and had saved my previous restrictive settings, which is solid in my opinion.

Re: Terms of Service update

#13

Post by mcescalante »

I wish other companies would borrow this "format" when they update their ToS. Even providing an easily accessible diff without me doing the work would be helpful. Too many times have I clicked on a ToS update to be directed to the new terms with a short note saying they're being updated on a certain date.

Re: Terms of Service update

#14

Post by lawn »

codezero wrote: post #12
lawn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! Most interesting bit imo: "If you have a Google Account, we may display your Profile name, Profile photo, and actions you take on Google or on third-party applications connected to your Google Account (such as +1’s, reviews you write and comments you post) in our Services, including displaying in ads and other commercial contexts. We will respect the choices you make to limit sharing or visibility settings…

The link is immediately available under the same text in the actual TOS: https://plus.google.com/settings/endorsements?hl=en From: http://www.google.com/policies/terms/changes/ It's very clear and had saved my previous restrictive settings, which is solid in my opinion.

Ah I didn't realize this was only for google+?

Doesn't this apply to gmail (my real name), google calendar, my youtube account, my android usage...? My searches?

Re: Terms of Service update

#15

Post by codezero »

lawn wrote: post #14
codezero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link is immediately available under the same text in the actual TOS: https://plus.google.com/settings/endorsements?hl=en From: http://www.google.com/policies/terms/changes/ It's very clear and had saved my previous restrictive settings, which is solid in my opinion.

Ah I didn't realize this was only for google+? Doesn't this apply to gmail (my real name), google calendar, my youtube account, my android usage...? My searches?

I don't know. It looks like this is for using ads in social search. Technically they are pushing hard to make YouTube just a subset of Google+ though, so who knows what extent this affects people, but it seems pretty restricted right now.

Gotta whittle people down slowly :)

Re: Terms of Service update

#16

Post by reustle »

mcescalante wrote: post #13

I wish other companies would borrow this "format" when they update their ToS. Even providing an easily accessible diff without me doing the work would be helpful. Too many times have I clicked on a ToS update to be directed to the new terms with a short note saying they're being updated on a certain date.

If you haven't seen it already, check out http://tosdr.org/

Re: Terms of Service update

#18

Post by criley2 »

fooqux wrote: post #8
kylec wrote: post #4

We are updating the Google Terms of Service. The new Terms will go live on November 11, 2013 and you can read them here. Because many of you are allergic to legalese, here’s a plain English summary for your convenience. Why not just write your TOS in plain English, then? Also, if a company supplies both a "legalese" version and a "plain English" version that differ, which one takes precedent?

Technically, the legalese version is written in plain English. ;) But snark aside, I don't think this plain English version is all that enforceable since it doesn't mention at any point about being a contract that you're agreeing to. IANAL, but I think this is part of why the actual TOS isn't written in "normal English". All the stuff that makes it binding (or is supposed to, anyway) and prevents lawyers from twistin…

TECHNICALLY "plain" means a number of things but most definitions revolve around: "easy to perceive or understand; clear, not decorated or elaborate".

By a dictionary definition (a technical one), convoluted legalese is anything but plain English.

Re: Terms of Service update

#19

Post by criley2 »

codezero wrote: post #15
lawn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah I didn't realize this was only for google+? Doesn't this apply to gmail (my real name), google calendar, my youtube account, my android usage...? My searches?

I don't know. It looks like this is for using ads in social search. Technically they are pushing hard to make YouTube just a subset of Google+ though, so who knows what extent this affects people, but it seems pretty restricted right now. Gotta whittle people down slowly :)

Yup! People will give up their privacy "willingly" sooner or later!

Re: Terms of Service update

#20

Post by joosters »

mcescalante wrote: post #13

I wish other companies would borrow this "format" when they update their ToS. Even providing an easily accessible diff without me doing the work would be helpful. Too many times have I clicked on a ToS update to be directed to the new terms with a short note saying they're being updated on a certain date.

Use the wonderful Docracy Terms of Service Tracker:

https://www.docracy.com/tos/changes

They provide handy diffs of hundreds of sites' ToS and privacy policies (and you can mail them to add others). You can also get Docracy to mail you when selected sites update their ToS.

[EDIT] - hmm, last updated in July, looks like they might have abandoned it :(

Post reply on HN