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Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

wired.com

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Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#181

Post by ars »

simias wrote: post #167
specialist wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I favor having an unlimited tier for all sports. Anything (safe) goes. I think it would reduce cheating. Then I wouldn't care if the pros are using robots, steroids, time travel, whatever. And there's still plenty of competition for amateurs all the way up. I grew up watching hydroplane racing. The local races were super fun. Much like going to local drag races. But watching H1 Unlimited Racing was ecstasy. http://en…

That can end up killing the competition (and the sport). See the criticism of the America's Cup for instance, where even competing teams said it was getting way too expensive to participate. People want actual competition, underdogs, suspense. Not having the guy with the biggest bank account win invariably and predictably. They want to root for a human, not an operating system. And nothing stops you from creating a n…

So limit how much money a team is allowed to spend, rather than limit the technology.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#182

Post by walshemj »

uhhmwat wrote: post #153
brey wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is a good thing. it's the same fundamental reason that we ban steroids from athletics. but human ingenuity being what it is, we shouldn't be surprised that people come up with new ways to bend the rules ... be that 'not-technically-traction-control traction control' or subtly altered performance-enhancing drugs the governing body's not had time to ban yet.

> it's the same fundamental reason that we ban steroids from athletics. It's not the same thing at all. Horrible analogy.

Yes changes your sex / danger of death and a whole load of other nasty side effects - I found I turned into Homer Simpson "mm doughnuts"

However they are righteous shit ( I have had to take them for medical reasons) but whilst on 40mg a day I read of a tragic case of a child that died due to a bad reaction and she was only on 60mg a day.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#183

Post by jonathansizz »

TillE wrote: post #23
ye wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When one guy leads by 30+ seconds, while everyone else fights for fractions of a second, either there's a major breakthrough or somebody is cheating.

Vettel has won races by large margins before, without any accusations of cheating. The time difference of ONE LAP is under a second, but that adds up over the course of an entire race. Red Bull have the best car, Vettel is the best driver, they do the fastest pit stops, and with a little luck this creates big wins.

There are several other drivers who're as fast or faster than Vettel. I think he's comparable to Nigel Mansell in the 1992 season: a very good driver in a far, far superior car.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#184

Post by iSloth »

The FIA must be aware of the system that they are using, buy looking at this section of the rules:

8.2.1 All components of the engine and gearbox, including clutch, differential and KERS in addition to all associated actuators must be controlled by an Electronic Control Unit (ECU) which has been manufactured by an FIA designated supplier to a specification determined by the FIA. The ECU may only be used with FIA approved software and may only be connected to the control system wiring loom, sensors and actuators in a manner specified by the FIA. Additional information regarding the ECU software versions and setup may be found in the Appendix to these regulations.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#185

Post by TallGuyShort »

jotm wrote: post #169

F1 was supposed to be about the fastest cars with the best technologies, why did they ban traction control (among other things)? What a joke...

While I agree with your disappointment, many people believe F1 was supposed to be about the best drivers more than about the best cars. I will admit that the regulations have made the races more exciting in the sense of competition, even though I would love to see what happened if you just let the engineers go crazy.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#186

Post by goostavos »

zalew wrote: post #67
7952 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that it was more entertaining before it was made safe through technological advancements. It would be interesting to see a series that used self driving cars that could take more risks.

> It would be interesting to see a series that used self driving cars how exactly would that be interesting?

Perhaps it is because I'm from the generation that thinks watching tool assisted speed runs of video games is a good leisure activity, but I would actually watch F1 if the humans were removed and it was a battle of wits between engineers and automated systems. It sounds awesome.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#187

Post by TallGuyShort »

Zigurd wrote: post #101

My theory is that they implemented an equivalent to traction control, but with no sensors at the wheel. It's all internal to the KERS, and probably a software hack. For example, if a drop in current from the KERS indicates the motor/generator needs less power even though the throttle is open, you might be able to infer wheel-spin without measuring it directly, and momentarily shut down the KERS to reduce power to the…

I'd be surprised if they hadn't looked at something like this, but it wouldn't explain the suspicious sound. The electric motor that KERS controls would be relatively silent compared to the V-8... (Oh how I miss the V-12's...)

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#188

Post by mchanson »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #89

As a fan of the sport, I've so far only read about this unsubstantiated conspiracy theory on forums and low-end blogs. Wired adds no new insights, no facts, no sources, not even new speculative theories, it just rehashes old gossip. Fuck, this is one step down from Gawker. I'm so glad I stopped taken Wired seriously since the 90's.

Also the money amounts they talk about sound very low for a team to care about. Budget is so big that $1k more per point (totally what like $270k) is not much money.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#189

Post by drblast »

curveship wrote: post #104
ronaldx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions. But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx. Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

This is wrong on two important levels: - the UCI limits bicycles so that it's a race between cyclists, not bank accounts. Currently, a top pro's bike costs about $10-15k, and a competitive bike can be bought for as low as $2-3k (even lower at the amateur level). If they removed the technical limitations, that number would be at least an order of magnitude higher, and potentially two or three. - bike races are not jus…

Sailing is a good example of a sport with development classes like the Aussie 18 and International 14 where there are few rules and tech is really important, and also classes like the Laser that are cheap, strict one-design boats.

There is room for both forms of competition.

Having grown up racing Lasers, I'd have to say, however, that watching a sailboat race is incredibly boring no matter what kind of boat. Competing is fun, though.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#190

Post by OvidNaso »

jackgavigan wrote: post #114
davej wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the comparison but it's really not "much the same". Modern F1 cars are much much better (not just faster) than they were in 1972. The strict technical regulations are in place for two main reasons: 1. To allow teams with smaller budgets to compete. 2. To focus innovation away from simply making bigger, more powerful engines with computers managing every facet of driver input and car output. That kind of…

> 1. To allow teams with smaller budgets to compete. There's a far better way to help the smaller teams: Split the sport's revenues more equally. Under the current regime, the top teams receive many times the amount the smallest teams do (e.g. more than a 9x difference between what the Constructors' Champion receives and the paltry $10m the bottom two teams are given) - http://www.hindustantimes.com/Images/Popup/2012…

I'm not familiar with the sport at all, but Red Bull's other sponsorship ventures would lead me to think that the money they would spend on a team is not tied to the direct profitability of it. It would help letting smaller teams have a bit more cash, but it wouldn't prevent the top teams from continuing to spend them out of competition. We actually have seen this as well in the Premier League. To really get balanced competition you need a host of financial regulations, not just caps and limited revenue sharing, with a monopoly on your sports leauge, ala the NFL.
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