Live data from Hacker News

Natural born programmers

programmingisterrible.com

11–20 of 113 posts

Re: Natural born programmers

#11
This article is nothing but a blatant argumentum ad consequentiam, which is a logical fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences

The argument given here is basically "mathematical ability is not innate, because if it were, women would react badly to this fact." The article provides lots of evidence that women react badly to this belief, but no evidence whatsoever that the belief is wrong.

Re: Natural born programmers

#12
Blog post is terrible. First quote talks about of the stupidity of the idea "hereditary wise man". That idea is indeed stupid, but what it has to do with the idea of "natural born"?

And while my ability to play basketball can indeed be developed to some degree, can it be developed to be good enough to play it professionally? I doubt that. Now, some my say that there is difference between physical and mental abilities, but really, are we so sure that we are all born with exactly equal mental setup and potential? Or is this a problem which is better avoided, because it does not play well with polit-correctness?

For the last point: does this "belief in natural born ability" apply only to programming and math? What hurts technology is not those "childish believes" but belief that it is at the centre of the universe.

Re: Natural born programmers

#13
It's a societal thing. Too many people have in their mind that STEM fields are nerdy and for guys only and they bring this retarded attitude into parenting. Only way it's going to change is gradually unfortunately.

Re: Natural born programmers

#15
post #5

Nature or nurture. Programming is a highly skilled trade, requiring creative thinking. It's like a combination of engineering and writing prose. While genetics no doubt plays some role, much larger are the attitudes and aptitudes a child learns in their formative years (mostly before school age.) Everybody can learn to program, but not everyone has the attitudes that will make them well suited to it. You're not born…

One of the problems I had as a child was the lack of exposure to the right tools and books. I was interested in games and knew DOS inside and out (at least from a user's perspective), and could script batch very easily, I had a big gap in getting to the point of writing an actual executable. There was a huge "I didn't know what I didn't know" problem. I envy the children of today with the internet at their fingertips and much more accessible tools, although they still face a similar problem, perhaps in the opposite direction (paradox of choice, perhaps).

Re: Natural born programmers

#17
post #5

Nature or nurture. Programming is a highly skilled trade, requiring creative thinking. It's like a combination of engineering and writing prose. While genetics no doubt plays some role, much larger are the attitudes and aptitudes a child learns in their formative years (mostly before school age.) Everybody can learn to program, but not everyone has the attitudes that will make them well suited to it. You're not born…

> much larger are the attitudes and aptitudes a child learns in their formative years (mostly before school age.)

Sorry, but... citation needed. I think the point the article tries to make is that there is no substitution for good old hard work: not your preschooling (or preschool parenting), not your genes, not the colour your bedroom walls were painted: dedication to improving your skills always wins.

> People who like to go out and drink with their friends every day after work, instead of learn new things at their computer will never be competitive with me.

I spent a large part of my 20's drinking & socializing, and it made me a much more rounded, resilient person. I now occasionally work on my side projects at home, but it's no substitute for the 100,000 hours of in the trenches experience in various sectors of the IT industry. What I've learned at work vastly dwarfs what I've learned at home.

Re: Natural born programmers

#18
post #9

While certainly a combination of nature and nurture, there's little question natural born programmers exist. I am one. At 4th grade Dad brought home a terminal and had me type in a 3 line BASIC program (printed a sine wave). I was instantly hooked, programmed daily, and some 35 years later I'm still lovin' it. That nature had to be nurtured lest it be starved or destroyed, and given room and care to flourish it did.

Sounds very similar to how an entire generation got started with programming.

Whatever cause you attribute to your interest, I find it more reasonable to believe that you found the concept of having a computer render your input on a screen to be fascinating and that it led you to teach yourself and practice further how to do this, or a multitude of reasons, but not that you had some inherent predisposition to being a programmer.

Re: Natural born programmers

#19
There are two distinct things, both being true, as far as current research shows:

- People who believe that mathematics is an ability that can be trained perform much better than the ones that believe it is an innate skills some people have some people don't

- Intelligence, and as a consequence the upper limit of mathematical ability, is to a large extent genetically determined

There is no conflict between those two statements.

Re: Natural born programmers

#20

This article is nothing but a blatant argumentum ad consequentiam, which is a logical fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences The argument given here is basically "mathematical ability is not innate, because if it were, women would react badly to this fact." The article provides lots of evidence that women react badly to this belief, but no evidence whatsoever that the belief is wrong.

Before writing the post off with a logical fallacy, perhaps you should consider the biases inherent in doing so, and whether they are distorting your reasoning: http://plover.net/~bonds/bdksucks.html
Post reply on HN