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Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

wired.com

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Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#91

Post by uptown »

FeloniousHam wrote: post #82
uptown wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It can't be cheating if they pass inspections." Same goes for Lance Armstrong, right?

Yes? I'm not a cycling fan, but I consider doping and attempts to evade detection fundamental to the sport. _Every rider is doping_, some are just better at it.

That's an interesting angle.

I've heard the argument for allowing athletes to take and do whatever they want to improve their physical performance. The best argument against that approach that I've heard is that if you allow a virtual free-for-all in terms of performance-enhancing drugs, then you're essentially requiring every participant to assume the risks associated with taking those drugs. Not doing so means they'll be unlikely to compete, which has all sorts of negative implications on their careers.

Obviously, the consequences of tweaking a car are different that tweaking the human body, and there's certainly banned performance-enhancing methods in sports that aren't currently thought to be damaging to the human body, but I think my point is clear.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#92

Post by samuel »

rwmj wrote: post #33

I think they should just let the teams use whatever technology they can invent, as long as it doesn't make it unsafe. Who cares how good the drivers are? The technology is far more interesting.

That implies to make cars that are too dependent of aerodynamic performance, which makes them incapable of overtaking.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#93

Post by geargrinder »

wtvanhest wrote: post #68
polymatter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when its no longer entertaining

For those that enjoy bicycle racing, check out motorcycle racing. For those that like gocart racing, check out NASCAR (seriously, check it out if you haven't). The number of fans that want to see the top technology vastly outnumber the number of fans that want to see the more limited tech. At this point, most of the limitations are for safety. It seems like a good idea to allow innovation if it is available to all at…

NASCAR and F1 take opposite approaches to regulating technology. F1 defines an envelope and you can do anything within that envelope. NASCAR defines specs and anything on either side of that spec is treated as a violation.

I much prefer F1's approach because it challenges engineers to innovate within parameters, just like the real world. NASCAR is trying to make everything even on the technology side and the result is that innovation is often called "cheating."

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#94

Post by deelowe »

rwmj wrote: post #33

I think they should just let the teams use whatever technology they can invent, as long as it doesn't make it unsafe. Who cares how good the drivers are? The technology is far more interesting.

Technology can make the racing uninterested. ABS and TCS removes all the risk from cornering and braking, so you don't get spectacular overtakes on hard braking, which is a big part of racing. So, some technological advances actually reduce the entertainment factor.

Thankfully, my favorite form of racing, motogp, has benefited greatly from recent technological advances. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YAiXqOwkmE

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#96

Post by cjrp »

7952 wrote: post #36
cjrp wrote: post #10

If the secret is the automated use of KERS, you'd see it in the on-screen graphics (the HUD-esque display shows when a driver is deploying KERS). Also the article makes the comparison in noise - but surely that noise is caused by the engine being limited/throttled, something which they could not get away with in this season since the ECUs are all the same. A KERS-based traction control wouldn't make the same noise be…

I'm not an engineer but couldn't you adjust how much energy the system generates on the recovery stage? If the magnets in the generator are electrical rather than rare earth you could adjust the strength of the magnets and the breaking affect of the generator would be adjustable. This would be akin to how ABS uses brake friction but with faster adjustment and less loss of energy.

Good point, I was thinking more of the boost you might gain from deploying KERS, vs. the reduced force on the wheel while you're harvesting.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#97

Post by antimagic »

scott_s wrote: post #84
wtvanhest wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those that enjoy bicycle racing, check out motorcycle racing. For those that like gocart racing, check out NASCAR (seriously, check it out if you haven't). The number of fans that want to see the top technology vastly outnumber the number of fans that want to see the more limited tech. At this point, most of the limitations are for safety. It seems like a good idea to allow innovation if it is available to all at…

Check out America's Cup. The boat designs are now far different than what they were decades ago - and I don't think they have design restrictions.

The America's Cup has very strict design restrictions. For example, in the latest edition, they weren't expecting catamarans to be able to foil because they had disallowed moving parts on the control surfaces. The Kiwis realised that you could actually move the entire control surface to get the desired control. It was awkward, which is why they had so much trouble actually controlling the foiling.

Anyway, yes, there are a lot of design restrictions in America's Cup yacht design.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#98

Post by geargrinder »

brey wrote: post #7

In an environment where innovation has been strictly regulated against (better engine management software? NOPE. better foil design? NOPE), the fine art of sticking to the letter of the law but totally bending the spirit of it is naturally where the bleeding edge of F1 design is going to lie.

When you say "foil design" are you referring to airfoils? Under the current F1 rules, almost all innovation is occurring in the aerodynamic area and teams are constantly testing and improving. The envelope is pretty small, but there is a lot of variation from team-to-team in this area.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#99

Post by ronaldx »

crockstar wrote: post #54
4ad wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a cyclist interested in recumbent and other alternative bicycle designs, I disagree. You can buy whatever kind of bicycle you want. Regarding competitions, I definitely think every cyclist has to ride the same type of bicycle, technology-wise, but I'd love to see competitions using alternative designs.

I'm not sure that's explicitly true about competitions. I know there are a number of rules around weight, helmet design, etc. However, I think there is at least some room for innovation that does occur and at least some variation of equipment (see: http://road.cc/content/feature/85959-tour-de-france-team-bik... as well as http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/4320804 ). I distinctly remember growing up and watching…

Yes, exactly. The present state of cycling is such that any R&D budget can be used more effectively on bending the doping rules than on mechanical innovation.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#100

Post by antris »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #89

As a fan of the sport, I've so far only read about this unsubstantiated conspiracy theory on forums and low-end blogs. Wired adds no new insights, no facts, no sources, not even new speculative theories, it just rehashes old gossip. Fuck, this is one step down from Gawker. I'm so glad I stopped taken Wired seriously since the 90's.

As a non-fan of the sport, this story sounds exciting. Clearly something interesting is happening in the F1 scene, and nobody knows for sure what it is. It's a great mystery.

Even if this story is a rehash of what has been already said in F1 fan blogs, it is very accessible to people who know little about the sport.

Journalism is about so much more than pure facts.

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