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Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

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431–440 of 479 posts

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#431
post #186
post #6

And the award of least significant poll of the week goes to... Seriously, you won't get anything meaningful out of this, people will vote for the language they like and then bash the usual suspects (PHP, actionscript, C++,...). Also they will browse the first 20 entries or so and then get bored and skip to the end. I'm sure the people who "dislike cobol" (7 people at the moment) have intimate knowledge of the languag…

My thought exactly. Actually I was think - "geez, these people are such hipsters". Everyone loves the "cool" languages - Scala, Haskell, etc. But of course the lame languages suck (Java). Though I was pleasantly surprised to see the love for C#. It's a very nice language and you'd think being from MS it wouldn't be "cool".

That's a dismissive attitude. I think the love shown to C# is example enough that there may be more to the results than hipster-ism. C# is great, and the vast majority of Java programmers are aware of that. I mean, holy shit - no lambadas? Lack of reified types? The Java ecosystem is amazing (build tools, libraries, the JVM, IDE's), but the language itself is depressingly stagnant and unpleasant to work with in comparison to similarly-placed languages.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#432
I can see that there's visible hate for Perl.

As a disclaimer, I'm not much of a Perl programmer, though I intend on sharpening my skills with it after I'm done with a few other projects.

It appears that it's been trendy to hate Perl for a while now, with the often repeated argument that it looks like line noise.

Yet I've seen plenty of people praise APL for its obscure design, even though it is the definitive unreadable language. To the uninitiated at least, but that's the point. I haven't used it, but I don't hate it, and I think it deserves praise for being a non-Von Neumann language.

The thing is, Perl is pretty much the hacker's language. TMTOWTDI, although allowing for inconsistency, also makes it a highly flexible tool and allows for people to hack together code, be it prototyping or for real use, fairly quickly and to their own preferences. With first-class regexes it's also invaluable for text processing and sysadmin tasks for which a shell script becomes tedious.

The CPAN is also exhaustive and has solutions for so many tasks, making Perl a very tempting language for scripting and general problem solving.

Ultimately, Perl is a tool and it serves a very good purpose. It has the potential for abuse and its philosophy is based on individuality and being able to take several approaches, but that's what makes it beautiful.

Letting go of the line noise mentality and getting to know the language better helps.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#433
As someone who wants to expand my backend-engineering experience, should I focus on one programming language at a time? Data on the poll shows that Python has a high like to dislike ratio than some of the other languages listed. What makes it good? What makes it better than similarly-acheivable languages like PHP and Ruby? Should I maybe dabble in PHP/Ruby to have an understanding of it? Really, my main question is - Which language will benefit me more? I know it can depend on what field I'm working in, and what my use of the language will be, but from a general standpoint, which would be the smarter choice?

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#434

Why does Ruby get so much hate? I know it's not the most performant, but the delight I get from Ruby code is still unparalleled IMO

Agreed, I would think that Python would have more haters, given its syntax such as spaces and need of self on each object function. IMO Ruby has all the advantages of Python without the ugly bits.

My take on the two is this:

Python code looks like Python code. Its structure is rigid enough to let you take on new Python code and (unless it's been too heavily inspired by Ruby code or similarly makes injudicious use of certain powerful Python features) you'll just "get it". Python's strict structure and syntax enhance this.

Ruby? Ruby is a language, but it's sort of more like a meta-language, with the popularity of the concept of using DSLs. Its studied lack of syntax makes it look to me like you often need to know the codebase to know what to do with the code.

(I speak this as one extensively familiar with Python but who has only a passing acquaintance with Ruby at present.)

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#435
post #424

I'm surprised at the lack of love for Groovy. Groovy rocks... I made the decision to switch all of our development to Groovy (and Grails) a couple of years ago, and I haven't regretted the move at all... it's gone astonishingly well. Much faster development than in raw Java, but without a huge learning curve, and yet still with seamless integration with existing Java libraries, plus more than a few very cool native G…

> I made the decision to switch all of our development to Groovy (and Grails) a couple of years ago Look at Groovy's history before 2 yrs ago and you'll see what's not to like. Groovy recently (29 Aug) turned 10 yrs old but no one was celebrating.

I've been using and following Groovy for varying degrees almost since the first release... I'm not sure what you're getting at. As far as I can tell, the only real, persistent, commonly-cited flaw with Groovy has been performance. And that is a fair criticism, but - at least for what I'm working on - not a "deal breaker". And I'm still optimistic that the Groovy team will eventually be able to follow in the footsteps of the JRuby guys and do some big things to take advantage of method handles and invokedynamic to speed things up. But even if they don't, Groovy is fast enough, even if it's not exactly setting the world on fire.

If there are any other serious complaints about Groovy, I haven't heard them, and/or haven't encountered them myself.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#436

I've written a simple ranker for the above scores: http://ancient-garden-9751.herokuapp.com/ Python and C most liked, PHP and Java most disliked (currently) (Source here for if/when it goes down: https://github.com/thomseddon/lang-rank )

Added: like+dislike like/dislike (like/dislike)*log(like) (like/(like+dislike))*log(like) (likeDirichlet/(likeDirichlet+dislikeDirichlet)) (likeDirichlet/(likeDirichlet+dislikeDirichlet))*log(likeDirichlet) lower bound of confidence interval at 95% level http://arcane-waters-4617.herokuapp.com/ source: https://github.com/bshanks/lang-rank

The resulting lists are quite similar but not identical, so i've analyzed them to find sets of languages that always or almost always appear at the top. I also made the corresponding 'most disliked' lists to find the most disliked languages.

On every 'most liked' list out of the above with some sort of control for wellknown-ness[1], the two most liked languages are C and Python. On every corresponding 'most disliked' list, the most disliked five languages are coldfusion, cobol, visual basic, actionscript, php.

Looking at various lists, the next most after C and Python liked usually tend to be lisp, scheme, lua, haskell. Then clojure, rust, erlang, go. Then sql. Then assembly, C#. Then ocaml, F#.

And after {coldfusion, cobol, visual basic, actionscript, php}, the next most disliked usually tend to be groovy or java.

In other words, the partial ordering seems to be approximately[2]:

  {c, python} >
  {lisp, scheme, lua, haskell} >~ {clojure} >~ {rust, erlang, go} >~ {sql} >~ {assembly, C#} >~ {ocaml, F#}
    > ... >~
  {groovy, java} > 
  {coldfusion, cobol, visual basic, actionscript, php}


It's interesting to contrast this 'most liked (controlling for wellknown)' ordering with the most (like+dislike)d counts, whose top 9 items are javascript, python, java, php, c, ruby, c++, sql, c#:

* Python is both extremely liked and extremely well-known

* Javascript is extremely well-known and is both liked and disliked.

* Java is extremely well-known and very disliked, and PHP is extremely well-known and extremely disliked.

* C is very well-known and extremely liked.

* Ruby and C++ are very well-known and both liked and disliked. SQL and C# are very well-known and more liked than disliked. Haskell and Go are moderately well-known and very liked.

* Lisp, Scheme, and Lua are not well-known but are very liked, and, to a lesser extent, Clojure, Rust, and Erlang.

[1] by which i mean, the six lists (like/dislike), ( (likeDirichlet/(likeDirichlet+dislikeDirichlet)), lower bound of confidence interval at 95% level ), (like/dislike)log(like) ), ( (like/(like+dislike))log(like) ), and ( (likeDirichlet/(likeDirichlet+dislikeDirichlet))*log(likeDirichlet).

[2] where >~ means a relation that holds for many of the lists under consideration, and > means a relation that holds for all of them.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#437
post #107
post #6

And the award of least significant poll of the week goes to... Seriously, you won't get anything meaningful out of this, people will vote for the language they like and then bash the usual suspects (PHP, actionscript, C++,...). Also they will browse the first 20 entries or so and then get bored and skip to the end. I'm sure the people who "dislike cobol" (7 people at the moment) have intimate knowledge of the languag…

>Seriously, you won't get anything meaningful out of this, people will vote for the language they like and then bash the usual suspects (PHP, actionscript, C++,...) Why do you insist that is not meaningful? Of course they will vote for the language they like, that is the purpose of the poll. Obviously people can vote from ignorance, but that goes both ways. Just as some people "dislike" cobol despite a lack of experi…

I think you mean "like" PHP despite experience with it.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#438

I like C++. I dislike C++. No seriously. For everything good about a language there's usually something that's not so good and is completely frustrating. That's why there's so many programming languages, they're all awful and excellent at the same time, asking a favourite is like saying 'do you prefer being hugged whilst on fire, or being hugged by someone on fire'.

I feel the exact same way about Javascript.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#439

I like C++. I dislike C++. No seriously. For everything good about a language there's usually something that's not so good and is completely frustrating. That's why there's so many programming languages, they're all awful and excellent at the same time, asking a favourite is like saying 'do you prefer being hugged whilst on fire, or being hugged by someone on fire'.

I feel the exact same way about Javascript.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, why are people bashing Actionscript? The language itself is based on Javascript and Javascript isn't getting so much hate. I know everyone hates Flash now... maybe I just still have a soft spot in my heart for programming Flash-based games back in the day.

Actionscript has basically no error checking. It'll check for syntax errors and that about it - every other error manifests as a strange bug or "why the F * is nothing happening!?!" Then you spend an hour tracking it down and discover the cause was some trivial thing that any normal language would have simply raised a compiler error for in the first place. And on top of that, its libs are very callback-heavy even in…

Are you serious? When's the last time you used ActionScript, 2004? Modern AS3 compiled using the FlexSDK is a proper development environment with compile-time errors for types and all. Combined with a debug player, you get both compile-time and runtime errors.

It certainly has a hell of a lot more error checking going on than something like JavaScript by the virtue of being a statically typed language first with dynamic stuff second.

That's not to say that obscure bugs don't exist in the runtime as with every other runtime ever, but don't misrepresent something you don't seem to be well versed in.

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