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Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#411

Post by [deleted] »

asdasf wrote: post #404
sequoia wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'll invent a position from whole cloth then present it as a quote the parent comment to turn him into a straw man, then I'll have a debate with that straw man. Then I'll kick a puppy! Why would you do that? If you read my comment you'll note that I said " many hands go up" " most hands go down." I'm not saying everyone who dislikes PHP hasn't used it, merely that there's a large number of people here who dogpile on…

You didn't address my comment at all. You are making the baseless claim that most criticism of PHP is out of ignorance. I am countering your baseless claim with a baseless claim of my own: that most defense of PHP is out of ignorance, and most criticism is out of knowledge. Linking to you whining about people disliking PHP does not support your claim.

[deleted]

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#412

Post by sequoia »

asdasf wrote: post #404
sequoia wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'll invent a position from whole cloth then present it as a quote the parent comment to turn him into a straw man, then I'll have a debate with that straw man. Then I'll kick a puppy! Why would you do that? If you read my comment you'll note that I said " many hands go up" " most hands go down." I'm not saying everyone who dislikes PHP hasn't used it, merely that there's a large number of people here who dogpile on…

You didn't address my comment at all. You are making the baseless claim that most criticism of PHP is out of ignorance. I am countering your baseless claim with a baseless claim of my own: that most defense of PHP is out of ignorance, and most criticism is out of knowledge. Linking to you whining about people disliking PHP does not support your claim.

dewd, did you read anything? "most criticism of PHP is out of ignorance" nope, I suggested that many of the people who "hate php" on this site (i.e. where this poll is taking place) haven't used it. If you want to claim it's not popular to bash PHP on this site, talk to me when your head is back in the sunshine.

"Linking to you whining about people disliking PHP does not support your claim." What are you even talking about? I don't link to any of my own whining. I linked to 1) me, CRITIQUING some poorly written PHP to show that I'm not just some clueless PHP fanboy 2) someone in this very thread explicitly confirming my suspicion- they are downvoting PHP w/o ever having used it even one time, but because, quote, "I read an article" and 3) several examples of vapid, worthless comments bashing PHP for no reason other than to say "PHP sux high five!!" These are evidence of the trend towards mindless PHP hate on HN that you seem... not to recognize.

If you want to criticize PHP, by all means, criticize it! Talk about a feature you don't like or a bad experience you had, but "fuck php amirite??" circle jerk is pointless & stems from the cool-bros-hate-php culture, not from an informed position. If you're informed about why php sucks, share your information! If you have nothing to share, why clutter up the thread everyone will "phpsuxlol" bullshit?

"I am countering your baseless claim with a baseless claim of my own" ok....

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#414

Post by _random_ »

dfkf wrote: post #211
stinos wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Used WPF a couple of times, not that bad at all? What exactly do you think can be improved? Are there alternatives to it?

XAML is the awful part of WPF. The reasoning behind it is understandable, but this whole "declarative ui" thing brings with itself a whole bunch of abstractions, like resource dictionaries, styles etc, that you wouldn't need if you do your ui in code. And sometimes code-only wpf is the only way to get good performance from it.

Still much, much better than HTML. Or, how I love WPF containers... Have to deal with the ugly div-row-span hack that is BootStrap at the moment.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#415

Post by captainmuon »

pcwalton wrote: post #265
leokun wrote: post #63

In my very uninformed, and novice opinion, which you should entirely disregard, it is my probably incorrect estimation that the Rust developers are in maybe over their heads. I don't like saying negative things about an interesting idea, good engineers who mean well, so I don't like this so please someone convince me why I'm wrong. A few things: The multiple ways to manage memory seem completely messy to me, the vari…

> The multiple ways to manage memory seem completely messy to me, the various ways to box values and what not and what the implications are. It's not pretty, it's not elegant, but then sometimes things aren't. I'm complaining about prettiness over usefulness somewhere else in this thread. But the box memory model thing left me feeling like it was a convoluted solution that could end up in confusion. Rust is also the…

> Rust is also the only industry language I'm aware of that gives you memory safety without garbage collection.

Python uses refcounting, and has a GC only for cycle breaking. You can turn it off in many cases and have deterministic behavior. Among compiled languages, Vala has no GC but safe references. It uses refcounting, too, but AFAIK also deduces when an object will not leak out of the scope (and thus the refcounting can be elided). But Vala is also somewhat a niche language, constructed around the GObject/Gtk object model.

That being said, the way rust handles memory looks really interesting. I definitely have to try it out these days.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#416

Post by _random_ »

stinos wrote: post #149
V-2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collections in Java are awful. Guava helps a bit, but it's still poor man's substitute. No LINQ, no lambdas (and the upcoming Java streams API is ugly as well), no delegates, no events. Verbosity. C# is a very nice language, only WPF sucks big time.

Used WPF a couple of times, not that bad at all? What exactly do you think can be improved? Are there alternatives to it?

It's quite good. Very well suited for the job of creating enterprise apps, also good for other desktop apps. Let's you build a typical grids-and-fields GUI much quicker and with much less pain than "modern" HTML-JS-MVC hackiness.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#417

Post by lowboy »

XorNot wrote: post #356
seanalltogether wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If adding a build step is an extra hassle, this might be the wrong profession." That's a very railsy answer. The strength of the web is that you don't need to run a build at all. I think that's the fundamental dislike of Coffeescript. I've worked on so many html frontends where a build process wasn't necessary to accomplish our job, and if someone tried to introduce one for the sake of coffescript it would simply be…

It's also that you lose any ability to step-debug at the moment. You still need to know Javascript to debug Coffeescript by and large. That mental context-switch overhead is the whole driving philosophy behind NodeJS in the first place - don't switch languages so often. CS/JS is enough of a change that the overhead is not insignificant.

Eh, I don't find switching back and forth to be that problematic in terms of context switching. That's because CS is very similar to JS in everything but syntax. Which is also why a solid JS background is almost essential when writing CS.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#418

Post by cgag »

jarrett wrote: post #373
eitland wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as we can agree that Java is cool whatever this poll says ;-) Based on this poll Java is not cool and most likely doesn't offer real advantages...

Yeah, that one perplexed me. I don't think anyone can deny Java's usefulness. I guess a lot of the hate is from people who find Java useful but still annoying. For my part, I don't think it's bad at all. When I use Java, I miss conveniences like `people.map { |p| [p.name, p.address] }`. But in exchange for typing more characters, Java gives me a huge ecosystem, good docs, effortless cross-platform coding, and pretty…

Why not use Clojure or another JMV language and get the same ecosystem at similar or less characters?

    (map (juxt :name :address) people)

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#419

Post by asdasf »

sequoia wrote: post #412
asdasf wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't address my comment at all. You are making the baseless claim that most criticism of PHP is out of ignorance. I am countering your baseless claim with a baseless claim of my own: that most defense of PHP is out of ignorance, and most criticism is out of knowledge. Linking to you whining about people disliking PHP does not support your claim.

dewd, did you read anything? "most criticism of PHP is out of ignorance" nope, I suggested that many of the people who "hate php" on this site (i.e. where this poll is taking place) haven't used it. If you want to claim it's not popular to bash PHP on this site, talk to me when your head is back in the sunshine. "Linking to you whining about people disliking PHP does not support your claim." What are you even talking…

>"most criticism of PHP is out of ignorance" nope, I suggested that many of the people who "hate php"

Yes, you said most. Go read your post again, or your response where you quoted yourself.

>but "fuck php amirite??" circle jerk is pointless & stems from the cool-bros-hate-php culture, not from an informed position

It is also nonexistent, so not much of a concern to anyone but you.

>If you have nothing to share, why clutter up the thread everyone will "phpsuxlol" bullshit?

Where did I do that again? You seem to be forgetting that you started this discussion, by preemptively calling out nonexistent "PHP haters" as ignorant.

Re: Poll: What are your liked and disliked programming languages?

#420

Post by pcwalton »

captainmuon wrote: post #415
pcwalton wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The multiple ways to manage memory seem completely messy to me, the various ways to box values and what not and what the implications are. It's not pretty, it's not elegant, but then sometimes things aren't. I'm complaining about prettiness over usefulness somewhere else in this thread. But the box memory model thing left me feeling like it was a convoluted solution that could end up in confusion. Rust is also the…

> Rust is also the only industry language I'm aware of that gives you memory safety without garbage collection. Python uses refcounting, and has a GC only for cycle breaking. You can turn it off in many cases and have deterministic behavior. Among compiled languages, Vala has no GC but safe references. It uses refcounting, too, but AFAIK also deduces when an object will not leak out of the scope (and thus the refcoun…

Reference counting is a form of garbage collection. There are many industry languages that offer safety without tracing garbage collection, but not without any garbage collection.
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