Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014 • Hacker News Board

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#21

Post by jwr » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 11:38 AM UTC

ccarpenterg wrote: post #18

jwr wrote: post #13

It's not a "Bitcoin ATM". It's a "Buy Bitcoins for cash" machine. And there is a huge difference. I'll get excited when I see a machine that DISPENSES cash for Bitcoin, anonymously. That will be a breakthrough. For the moment, in spite of many claims, Bitcoin remains the most easily trackable currency and there is no way that I know of to get money out of the Bitcoin system in a way that can't be tracked.

The definition of ATM From Wikipedia: is an electronic telecommunications device that enables the clients of a financial institution to perform financial transactions without the need for a cashier, human clerk or bank teller.

Yes, I was certain somebody would nitpick on the details. Somebody always does. But I think I was very clear in describing what I think the difference is, and I also think that most people when asked to describe an "ATM" would not describe a machine that takes your money, but rather one that dispenses it.

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#22

Post by wereHamster » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 11:57 AM UTC

mikkom wrote: post #4

I'm not sure if the "compact size" is such a good thing - There is a reason why ATMs are so big.. (A junkie with a crowbar)

The machine looks small, can't someone just pick it up and run?

No. The machine will be smash and grab resistant. It is not meant for unattended or outdoor use, but it will have thick metal mounting plates, a dual locking system and an internal strong box for the cash.

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#23

Post by michaelmior » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 12:13 PM UTC

oleganza wrote: post #19

It's a bitcoin vending machine. Owner of a bar/cafe/shop can accept bitcoins for payments and load them in this machine to convert them to cash. Those who want to spend bitcoins don't need to find those who want to buy them. Shops have easier way to accept and convert bitcoins into local currency => more places to spend bitcoins => more places where to buy bitcoins => more people using bitcoins => value grows => more…

The machine doesn't do BTC to cash, but rather the other way around.

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#24

Post by user24 » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 12:41 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #13

It's not a "Bitcoin ATM". It's a "Buy Bitcoins for cash" machine. And there is a huge difference. I'll get excited when I see a machine that DISPENSES cash for Bitcoin, anonymously. That will be a breakthrough. For the moment, in spite of many claims, Bitcoin remains the most easily trackable currency and there is no way that I know of to get money out of the Bitcoin system in a way that can't be tracked.

> there is no way that I know of to get money out of the Bitcoin system in a way that can't be tracked.

https://localbitcoins.com/

> LocalBitcoins.com is a marketplace for trading bitcoins locally to cash or online payments of your choice.

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#25

Post by jzwinck » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 1:24 PM UTC

This machine accepts tons of world currencies. This will be much to the disadvantage of its owner, who will now have to try to change $20 in each of a dozen currencies to the local fiat currency. Doing this will be somewhere within a triangle of difficult, annoying, and expensive. Once owners figure this out, they will probably demand a way to program their machines to reject most currencies, just like everyone else does.

Accepting "currencies from over 200 countries" is not a good thing when there aren't that many countries in the world with currency you'd want to hold. Nor does it reassure us about the machine's ability to reject counterfeit notes--owners won't be able to verify notes they don't normally use, and BTC will ensure that fraudulent depositors have low risk of being caught.

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#26

Post by nly » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 2:00 PM UTC

jzwinck wrote: post #25

This machine accepts tons of world currencies. This will be much to the disadvantage of its owner, who will now have to try to change $20 in each of a dozen currencies to the local fiat currency. Doing this will be somewhere within a triangle of difficult, annoying, and expensive. Once owners figure this out, they will probably demand a way to program their machines to reject most currencies, just like everyone else…

I think it means the note acceptor is physically capable of recognising notes from 200 countries. You presumably only configure it to accept notes from one currency at a time.

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#27

Post by idlephilosopher » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 2:42 PM UTC

michaelmior wrote: post #23

oleganza wrote: post #19

It's a bitcoin vending machine. Owner of a bar/cafe/shop can accept bitcoins for payments and load them in this machine to convert them to cash. Those who want to spend bitcoins don't need to find those who want to buy them. Shops have easier way to accept and convert bitcoins into local currency => more places to spend bitcoins => more places where to buy bitcoins => more people using bitcoins => value grows => more…

The machine doesn't do BTC to cash, but rather the other way around.

Indeed, but a cafe owner can accept bitcoins as payment for their goods, and then sell those same bitcoins to the public via the machine. This takes away some of the friction from bitcoins becoming just another payment form like credit cards.

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#28

Post by michaelmior » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 3:46 PM UTC

idlephilosopher wrote: post #27

michaelmior wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The machine doesn't do BTC to cash, but rather the other way around.

Indeed, but a cafe owner can accept bitcoins as payment for their goods, and then sell those same bitcoins to the public via the machine. This takes away some of the friction from bitcoins becoming just another payment form like credit cards.

Good point. I hadn't thought of that workflow :)

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#29

Post by ddoolin » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 4:26 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #21

ccarpenterg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of ATM From Wikipedia: is an electronic telecommunications device that enables the clients of a financial institution to perform financial transactions without the need for a cashier, human clerk or bank teller.

Yes, I was certain somebody would nitpick on the details. Somebody always does. But I think I was very clear in describing what I think the difference is, and I also think that most people when asked to describe an "ATM" would not describe a machine that takes your money, but rather one that dispenses it.

Even the full name of "ATM" doesn't limit itself to withdrawals, just as Tellers have never been limited to withdrawals.

Much the way that international ATMS allow you to "buy" the local currency for whatever currency may be in your account.

Re: Built for Bitcoin. Next Run: Early 2014

#30

Post by ddoolin » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 4:30 PM UTC

jzwinck wrote: post #25

This machine accepts tons of world currencies. This will be much to the disadvantage of its owner, who will now have to try to change $20 in each of a dozen currencies to the local fiat currency. Doing this will be somewhere within a triangle of difficult, annoying, and expensive. Once owners figure this out, they will probably demand a way to program their machines to reject most currencies, just like everyone else…

Considering you have to be physically present to use this, I think this is almost a non-issue, considering the huge majority of users will be carrying the currency of wherever the machine is located.