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If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

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Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#161

Post by balakk »

zmmmmm wrote: post #102
LukeShu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Mono exists, and contains a free implementation of C#.

True, but you can't spruik that and then tell us in the next breath about the wonderful developer tools and Intellisense, etc., because most of that doesn't exist outside Windows. With Java it's not just the JVM that is cross platform - the whole developer ecosystem and culture is from the ground up. Every IDE, every compiler, every tool, all runs on every platform. It has it's holes, but largely Java actually achiev…

Xamarin is wonderful. There's a huge .NET OSS ecosystem out there. You might be surprised with what can be done with it.

http://xamarin.com

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#162

Post by Ologn »

buckbova wrote: post #4

Well what do they teach in schools? When I was attaining my degree during the end of the last century, Java (and XML) was being trumpeted as the saving grace for all soon to be software professionals. We were all in love OO programming and this scratched us right where C++ left an itch. Oh Java Beans and Servlets, how we loved thee. It’ll take decades before all the code created by those who came right before me and…

I have been taking CS classes over the past few years. Java and C++ are the mainstay languages, but we have had some Python and assembly well. Then a little bit of some other languages like Common Lisp and Prolog.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#164

Post by eonil »

taspeotis wrote: post #97
EpicEng wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popular in terms of use, yes, but liked? I don't know, I doubt it. Android and iOS essentially force you to use Java or Objective-C respectively. I don't hate Java, but I don't like it either. It lacks quality of life features that other, similar languages have had for years. I can't stand writing code in it if I don't have to (and don't get me started on Objective-C...) From what I hear from others and read on a wee…

> and don't get me started on Objective-C.. itsNotTheLanguagesFaultPerSe:butIfTheFunctions:andTheirParameters:werentNamedLikeThis:itWouldBeBearable

You should I this code.

    langFaultFuncParamNameWBB()

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#166

Post by acqq »

mbillie1 wrote: post #49

Scala is a "scripting language?" Also, >When the JVM implementation of Ruby, JRuby, added native support for this instruction, its performance zoomed past the C-based Ruby VM, which for years has been the Ruby reference platform. As JRuby's performance continues to pull ahead, I fully expect it to become the reference implementation. Certainly, it will become the vehicle by which most organization first try out Ruby.…

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/jruby.php

There are some areas where JRuby is 3 times faster and the areas where it's 2 times slower. Not impressive, compared to native Java implementations:

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?t...

Where you can get even two orders of magnitude speedup.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#167

Post by kamaal »

smrtinsert wrote: post #64
jasallen wrote: post #18

Java may not be dying, but it does take off early on Fridays for golf. Java is not dying the same way Cobol was not dying 10 years ago. It has a lot of legs left but nobody is 'hoping' to use it, they are told to do so. Java is and always has been almost completely a corporate tool. Again, like Cobol, so the 'cool kids' are not going to give it much love. It's too slow to execute to compete with C++, its too slow to…

are these the same thought leaders that ditched ruby for scala or node or clojure? ill be coding with libgdx and pushing to html5 and android while the thought leaders decide their next move.

You don't become a thought leader by being stuck in the past. You have to evolve and move on, and need to realize that there is zero benefit in tool religion.

Java is so big today because at one point for all the marketing money by Sun and C++ incompetence among programmers, it had a field day. I remember an architect who made Java compulsory in a program because as he was tired of C++, he just couldn't get it and neither any of his team members.

Today Java is, what C++ was at its times. Its showing age, and merely adding features and bloating won't fix it. There is tons of Java around, just like there was tons of C++. So people will be using Java for a while. But the creamy projects will be moving on to newer languages and there won't be growth or progress in Java world anymore. And sooner or later people will realize they don't want to associated with tools on their resume, only to be hired as 'migration engineers'.

Before that happens, its better to move on to something better.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#168

Post by jaggederest »

jaggederest wrote: post #107
ww520 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So which hip languages are these "thought leaders" using now?

Python, Ruby, Javascript, JVM-hosted languages like Clojure, Scala, and newer languages still in development like Elixir, I'm sure I'm missing some. Haskell is perpetually 10 years ahead in programming research but sadly it functionally lacks support for day-to-day scripting tasks.

Ah, knew I'd forgotten one - Go, pretty interesting language with lots of action around it.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#169

Post by babebridou »

bodhi wrote: post #55
msluyter wrote: post #30

I primarily use java in my day job, and although there's a lot not to like about it, some standard complaints are somewhat overblown. For example, nothing really forces you to use long variable/method names, but even if you do, a modern IDE -- I use IntelliJ -- with auto-completion makes these fairly painless. It's not like you have to type every letter of "SomeClass.veryLongMethodName()" -- rather, you type "SomeCla…

> I'm not particularly persuaded to the "you have to type a lot" complaints. I haven't used Java in anger in a long time, but my beef was never that you had to type a lot, but that it was verbose. Verbosity impacts on typing, sure, and as you've said, IntelliJ makes typing it out painless. The flip side of verbosity, though, is reading the code. There's no "hit tab" or "Cmd-J, fori, return" to increase comprehension…

Well, there are programming languages and then there are conventions. I think a programming language is more like an alphabet, and programming conventions are the real languages.

I can scroll through code at high speed and understand it at a mere glance once I "get" both the language and the convention that was used (if only the doc and comments didn't get in the way all the freaking time...) Things that feel out of place immediately stand out for more careful inspection.

Autocomplete, code snippets, common refactor options etc, pretty much everything an IDE does automagically for programmers, those are a boon for enforcing conventions as well, once you're proficient with them and how they're configured for a project you can pretty much "see" the history of the code without even looking at the commit history.

I once had a boss who used to say this: "I love looking at programmers reading code. It's like that guy from The Matrix, he's looking at undecypherable numbers and says 'my, my, look at that brunette in the sexy red dress'!"

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#170

Post by perlgeek »

ww520 wrote: post #105
jasallen wrote: post #18

Java may not be dying, but it does take off early on Fridays for golf. Java is not dying the same way Cobol was not dying 10 years ago. It has a lot of legs left but nobody is 'hoping' to use it, they are told to do so. Java is and always has been almost completely a corporate tool. Again, like Cobol, so the 'cool kids' are not going to give it much love. It's too slow to execute to compete with C++, its too slow to…

So which hip languages are these "thought leaders" using now?

Haskell?
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