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What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

forbes.com

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Re: What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

#51

What's worse than working for Microsoft is ... being a shill for Microsoft. In a weird way, minus the "but really we're great" part, it must be hell to spend your life touting Microsoft when they are so hated. Because in these networked days, a PR person can't go home and tell their friends "they suck, I just work there" because things get around much more quickly.

This was an honest answer on Quora to a question that I think is interesting. It is how I actually feel. Quora reached out to ask me if they could publish it on Forbes, and I said it was fine, because it was already public and out there. You seem to be suggesting that the only way someone could want to work at Microsoft and feel this way is if they are a shill. Isn't that exactly what I just wrote about, as basic lac…

No and Yes,

No, I don't think everyone who works at MS is a shill. I think the average MS engineer goes home and can put their Microsoft boosting away. It's only the people who professionally represent MS, who's job it might to say sell Bing to schools or similar stuff, who have to be always on, always convinced that MS is good.

And Yes, I agree I'm demonstrating some of your point. I think you were honest on the basic point. There's basic lack of respect. It must be hard. I don't know how to help you there. I try to focus my anger on the people with decision making power.

Re: What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

#52
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the plastics used in pacemakers (cue story about four-year-old Jimmy and his pacemaker)

Wanna see that done masterfully? http://www.apple.com/ios/videos/#developers Think for a minute what these helicopter shots cost in these places, and getting the crews and 4k cameras and such out there....

Oooo, that almost makes me angry. For the prosthesis, it's not like the "app" couldn't be replaced by a single switch on the foot. From what I can tell the "app" is literally the most superficial, least important part of the whole system.

Good example.

Re: What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

#54

The part about Microsoft being ubiquitous begs the question: is it actually good that Microsoft software is everywhere? The part that really gets me is schools. I can't see pushing Surface/Windows 8/Office/insert MS product here on students (especially young ones) being beneficial to anyone other than Microsoft. As a student who was expected to format essays according to Word and to use (Excel, Powerpoint, even FRONT…

Not only that, they kind of have to.. you can't legally track users under the age or (12 or 13 I forget which), so that means if they're aware the users are under age, they have to not track them.

I like a lot of the technology and software that has come out of MS.. VS is a pretty damned great IDE, and there's a lot to like. ASP.Net MVC is one of the nicer frameworks I've used, the Razor view engine in particular... That said, I stopped going to their developer presentations a couple of years ago, because every one seemed like an advertisement for Azure.

I like that Azure is there, as an option.. I also like that there's Joyent, Amazon, Linode and a dozen others. Options are great... But I'm tired of seeing it shoved down everyone that develops on an MS platform.

I've spent roughly half my development time for over two years developing towards node.js ... I find a much lower level of friction, that it lends itself better to modularization and can support multiple concurrent versions of libraries without having them all in the same bin directory. Not to mention imho better testing ability, and just a smoother cycle with less prescription in the core.

Ironically enough, I still think that Outlook + Exchange is the best tool combination out of MS compared to their competitors, and even that is much more open today than ever before. I don't think most people NEED MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc. Especially with web tools for powerpoint and excel that are as good as their desktop counterparts. And Libre Office Writer in many ways besting Word... I don't see much value there.

If MS would really separate some of their business units, it could work so much better...

If Windows developed as a Core OS framework, with UI developers for desktop, xbox, and mobile separated, we wouldn't have to deal with Metro on the desktop, where it's imho a poor fit, but could have it in mobile where it makes more sense.

If the Office team were untangled and better able to target iOS and Android, a better job with OSX, and less tethered, they could be a powerhouse. Separate Outlook and push them back with the Exchange team.. or hell as a separate product. They could do what BlackBerry should have done and create a best of breed cross-platform mail app.

They've been so tethered to trying to integrate their marginal sales into windows + office that they've been strangled against competition that many of their departments should have been able to take advantage of.

In doing the above, their Visual Studio team could embrace other platforms better. Web Matrix is one of the best tools out there for NodeJS development, and most of the features haven't gotten into VS.

MS developed azure as a great platform to deploy too, but keeping a lot of their concepts tied to windows + vs, has restricted growth they could have had. Azure would have been better off without the heavy MS & Windows tie ins... they could have embraced other OSes earlier on, and perhaps been seen more favorably with them. Their PaaS levels could have even supported distributed/shared LXC deployments, and much better tooling.

Historically, MS has made most of their money with Windows and Office from business customers, and will continue to do so.

However, if they don't let their individual business units actually integrate, inter-operate and compete with third parties on a whole new level, I don't think that they'll find the niches that Oracle and IBM have found in the long run.

They'll be here for a long while regardless, but they won't have the same exposure to every person with a computer as the trend continues.

Re: What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

#55

Pure rubbish. MSFT should have been split up for blatant violations of the Sherman Anti Trust Act but got a last minute pass by Bush. The company is nothing more than a drain on the technology industry in this country. The worst thing about working for Microsoft? You have to run Windows.

You seem to have some special hatred towards Microsoft (looking at your twitter stream). But considering you work in devops, I'd understand why ;)

Re: What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

#56
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words, they make chairs, despite being forced to use awful, expensive software? I, too, thought this. Actually, this puts a whole new perspective on the "Microsoft tax". Everything we do in life has been "taxed" by Microsoft. The argument is specious: you could be sitting on a chair that was sold for less money. You might be working in a more spacious building if better software was in use. You'd probably…

> You'd probably be paid more money if the costs for IT weren't so high. Note I don't actually believe any of those things... I do, from first hand experience: we're developing insurance pro software, and also have an all in one hosted solution, where we handle everything for the customer (from storage to configuration to backup), we set up an IPsec link and they just connect via TS. The product, which has a codebase…

I think if it were a web based solution your argument wouldn't be as sound.. MS server licensing isn't really so bad if you aren't also doing larger deployments of SQL and/or Exchange.

As it is, have you checked into porting your software to Mono (assuming it's .Net based), which may or may not work for what you have... if it's COM or ATL based, you're really SOL. That said, if you're mostly winforms, and don't have too many dependencies on third party gui controls, you have a shot there.

That would really lower your costs... and as you mention, a web based solution could make a lot more sense, if you can support that model, depending on your software.

Re: What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

#57
post #16

The author seems to revolve his article around MS software running manufacturing, ambulances, etc. This is only true in the most literal sense possible. The software that runs these industries just happens to be written upon an MS platform due to a number of unfortunate market incidences that forced other OS players out of the game for less than technical reasons. This trend is now rapidly reversing and new software…

First, nobody at Microsoft posted an article. I answered a question on Quora, before the Yale incident even occurred. Quora reached out and asked if they could publish on Forbes, which I said was fine. I updated to add the Yale example, which has already been discussed on HN, so I don't rehash, but please note nobody has ever suggested Yale lied. I've suggested they did not great science, which is very much not the s…

Again, Microsoft never brought any advances to those industries. They provided a platform (closely identical to those offered by numerous alternatives) on which the real software that made these advancements was hosted on. Your argument is the same as saying that Ford is responsible for nuclear power because their trucks deliver the fuel to the plants. If there was no Ford, then Toyota trucks could deliver the same fuel with no noticeable differences to anyone or the industry. Same for Windows and plant controller software that runs on it.

So if you agree that Ford did not do the nuclear industry any favours, you must accept that Microsoft did not do the manufacturing industry any favours. Both companies simply got a nice income for providing a necessary but widely available resource. Saying Microsoft is the one bringing the advancements is just silly.

Re: What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

#58

The part about Microsoft being ubiquitous begs the question: is it actually good that Microsoft software is everywhere? The part that really gets me is schools. I can't see pushing Surface/Windows 8/Office/insert MS product here on students (especially young ones) being beneficial to anyone other than Microsoft. As a student who was expected to format essays according to Word and to use (Excel, Powerpoint, even FRONT…

Well, as the guy behind Bing for Schools, let me suggest an alternate world. Let's pretend Microsoft simply blinked out of existence. Can you name any software package as well integrated, as powerful, and as empowering for students as Office? You said that putting Office in the hands of students can't possibly be beneficial to anyone but Microsoft. But that's EXACTLY what I'm writing about. Let's pretend it was free…

Most of the world, and even the people in the US aren't using desktop computers daily... using any tool that ties them mostly to a desktop platform, or an also-ran mobile platform is not doing them any favors.

IMHO, if the Office division were actually able to run as a separated business unit from the whims of Windows, they would be MUCH better off.

I think that as office suites go, MS Office is absolutely the best of breed. However, there isn't much of anything that it offers that gives an elementary student an advantage over a pre-configured linux convertible tablet with Libre Office.

I like windows.. it's a consistent platform that isn't subject to an incredibly fragmented desktop/application space. IMHO IIS is an incredibly good web server. VS is a great IDE, with a wonderful level of integration for devops environments.

That said, I don't feel that Windows has much of a life left in it, and that 10 years from now, it will be relegated to the same role that Solaris or AIX workstations were in the early-mid 90's, a developer platform for server deployments. There's money to be made there in the long run, sure... but if MS really wants to succeed, it needs to allow the windows core os to develop apart from the desktop, server and mobile spaces.. and for the VS and Office teams to operate apart from that. It would also do well to let competitive products rise from within. Both in terms of support, as well as vision.

Re: What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

#59

>> It is working at a company that people don’t believe in, despite the immense importance it plays in their daily life. Very true, Microsoft's business level software does not have as much visibility IMHO. People underestimate the role their software plays. >> Imagine you got out of that chair for a second. Walked across the street to get a cup of coffee. Got hit by a bus. The ambulance that picks you up? Microsoft.…

You are absolutely right that the janitor has a role, as does the barista, and I afford both of those people immense amounts of respect in my daily life. I don't look at the things they do and say "simply because you are a barista, I am going to dislike this." And yet there are many people, especially in tech, who are willing to take pot shots at something just because it was produced by Microsoft. My answer was an a…

Microsoft worked very hard to earn that disrespect.

Re: What is the worst thing about working at Microsoft?

#60

No matter how good or bad Microsoft is, the workers there dont have a magic privilege that should force anyone to respect and feel grateful to their company and them...

I'm not asking for a magic privilege. I'm asking people to step back and evaluate what Microsoft is actually doing. Take Bing, for example; you strip the brand off and people actually prefer our results. Take an honest look at the products we produce and still don't choose to use them? Totally fine. But it is important that people do take that step back - we can't let tech be ruled by branding only.

I personally don't like the haters.. and of all tech companies, Sony is probably the only one I won't use because of politics against their brand/management decisions. They've done some cool things, and BluRay was a better format than HD-DVD, but the market was leaning towards HD-DVD when backroom deals killed that. (not to mention rootkits, etc)

Many people feel the same about MS. What I find issue with is that people will completely dislike a solution for the brand alone. I've seen this for years when I've suggested/supported Mono in Linux. .Net is a pretty damned good platform/runtime.

I think it's a perfectly valid choice to not run something because of the company that makes it. Lambasting something for the same reasons, in a non-technical fashion isn't so great.

Many of the haters will poo-poo on anything. In my household I have Android on my phone and tablet, an osx macbook pro for my laptop, a windows desktop, an htpc now running ubuntu/xbmc (was running win7 before). A NAS running FreeNAS (BSD), and a handful of other devices.

I'm not tied to any one platform, and like most people don't care too much about what I run, as long as it works. I develop software for a living, and most of that has run on Windows. I appreciate that there are great, brilliant, and wonderful people at MS. I also recognize that many of it's management decisions have been bad for the larger community. Not to mention the damage being done to some what could be better divisions at MS.

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