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If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

drdobbs.com

91–100 of 327 posts

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#91
One of the huge advantages of Java's static typing + somewhat boring/verbose syntax is that it makes writing powerful tools for manipulating Java code far, far easier than any of the C-based languages with preprocessors or any dynamic languages.

After working in IntelliJ for a while with its phenomenal refactoring tools going back to any other coding environment feels somewhat stone age in comparison.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#92
post #8
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Any talk of Java "dying" is just nonsensical Java hands down is the most obvious choice for any applications that require performance, yet are too complicated to write and support in C/C++/other lower level languages. Java JIT is very mature unlike JITs for most other languages, which largely remain at the level of experimental projects and fall short on key production requirements. Given that the entire Hadoop ecosy…

Yes, that's why kernels are written in java. If you're writing complex code java is rarely the answer as it requires so much complexity itself. Hint: Most java projects just appear to be complex because of the poor quality of the language (and developers). Java is hands down the choice for simple projects written by way too many poor quality developers. The JVM can barely manage 12 GB of memory, Java is a piece of cr…

Oh please, Workday uses a JVM managing 160GB. Lucene/Solr are not simple projects, by any yardstick, for example. I do agree Java the language is somewhat cumbersome, but saying that its a piece of crap for anything thats complex is naive

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#93
post #61
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Languages like Matlab are best suited for expressing calculus. Why are you choosing a poor tool for the job? Most Java programmers don't care about expressing calculus. They care about expressing interactions between web services, sql, and applying rules as the data flows through their modules. Or between user interface elements and service requests. It's all about moving data around, working on that data when you've…

The problems of pushing bits from one server to another aren't that complicated and the pomp and circumstance of java gets in the way of actually accomplishing those things. As you point out when you have a reasonably complicated problem like applying functions java fails miserably and other languages are a much better choice.

No offence, but it's clear you have no idea about the domains in which server-side Java is typically used. Very large enterprises have all kinds of weirdness and the Java ecosystem has a bunch of libraries found in no other language ecosystem that make things manageable. Java-the-language is sadly verbose and tedious but that's not why people choose it.

So server-side Java lives in a niche and I would never suggest it for, say, anything client-side or basic web apps.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#94
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Mono exists, and contains a free implementation of C#.

I have done less than 10 hours of .NET programming in my life so I have no idea here... but my impression is that MONO substantially less accepted than a standard Java port... not trying to bash, just explaining my view. I'm moving a significant production Java app from a Linux box to Windows in the next 3 months. My expected work is about 2-days, and frankly my management wouldn't expect more, and I'd have a hard ti…

Unity is probably the biggest commercial use of Mono: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_(game_engine)

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#95
post #56
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similarly, I never type "for (int i = 0; i As someone who didn't realize this existed in Intellij, I think you may have just changed my life :)

Eclipse has something similar, which it calls "code templates." Features like these leave me wondering why "excessive typing" is often cited as a criticism of Java. As far as I can estimate on the fly, I type less than half of the characters that make up my Java code. And as the article points out, for readability, verbosity is arguably a good thing. I sure believe it is, perhaps because I am more distracted by poor…

Excessive typing isn't the issue. The problem with verbose code is that code gets read way more than it gets written. In Java you're often reading 15 lines of code for something that could be 2-3 in other languages.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#96
post #75

I primarily use java in my day job, and although there's a lot not to like about it, some standard complaints are somewhat overblown. For example, nothing really forces you to use long variable/method names, but even if you do, a modern IDE -- I use IntelliJ -- with auto-completion makes these fairly painless. It's not like you have to type every letter of "SomeClass.veryLongMethodName()" -- rather, you type "SomeCla…

Most standard complaints are over 10 years old, people should just get over it. The IDEs are a little fat and I/O hungry. If you don't have a beefy machine, just get a SSD, and that problem is gone. Spring is great, but JavaEE6 simplified things further standardising things like CDI, JPA, JSF, Jersey, etc... (also, JavaEE7 was just released). It's actually a pleasure to write web apps in Java nowadays. Great IDEs, de…

Jersey is a true joy. It's really a nice way to write restful apps.

I never liked Spring. And large enterprise apps' source code makes my eyes hurt. However, none of this is a reflection on Java or the JVM itself. I think we'll have another 40 years of people predicting the end of Java until we realize it's interwoven into every aspect of computing and can't be tossed out any more easily than C or C++ can be. The JVM will probably be healthy for a very long time, and as long as the JVM is around, Java will probably be chosen for new projects (and maintenance on Java apps will probably be a nice retirement income for many of us now).

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#97
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Android yet. When you add in the Android factor, Java is probably still one of the most widely used programming languages today. It's funny the article straight away brings up the verbosity argument as well. You want to talk about verbosity - take a look at Objective-C and Cocoa (again, hugely popular today!)! Personally, I quite like Java.

Popular in terms of use, yes, but liked? I don't know, I doubt it. Android and iOS essentially force you to use Java or Objective-C respectively. I don't hate Java, but I don't like it either. It lacks quality of life features that other, similar languages have had for years. I can't stand writing code in it if I don't have to (and don't get me started on Objective-C...) From what I hear from others and read on a wee…

> and don't get me started on Objective-C..

    itsNotTheLanguagesFaultPerSe:butIfTheFunctions:andTheirParameters:werentNamedLikeThis:itWouldBeBearable

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#98
post #80
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

C to both of your questions. The JVM compiler compiles for the JVM, which is written in C. So, how again can something written in C perform faster than...something written in C? I'm not claiming that line by line transcription, C will always perform each particular operation faster than Java. But the fact that you could write the entire JVM in C means that you could recreate the exact platform and replicate the resul…

> So, how again can something written in C perform faster than...something written in C? Easy. JVM has runtime information it can use that C compiler simply doesn't have. There are some synthetic benchmarks that show how "java is faster than C".

doesnt matter,the jvm takes a lot of resources which is problematic is some situations.raw speed is nothing without the memory footprint or AAA games would be written in java.they are not for a good reason:lack of direct memoy management.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#99
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popular in terms of use, yes, but liked? I don't know, I doubt it. Android and iOS essentially force you to use Java or Objective-C respectively. I don't hate Java, but I don't like it either. It lacks quality of life features that other, similar languages have had for years. I can't stand writing code in it if I don't have to (and don't get me started on Objective-C...) From what I hear from others and read on a wee…

> and don't get me started on Objective-C.. itsNotTheLanguagesFaultPerSe:butIfTheFunctions:andTheirParameters:werentNamedLikeThis:itWouldBeBearable

I find the descriptive nature of method signatures to be quite delightful. Unlike other languages like C++, I don't always have to go looking for the function definition to see the types of the parameters it takes, and what exactly was the order again? Combined with Xcode's autocomplete, it saves a lot of time.

I shed a small tear every time I have to call a C API with and endless parade of (NULL, NULL, 0, NULL).

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#100
post #58
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly certain Java and C++ have comparable speeds, and I think in someways Java's faster.

Many painful minutes spent with slow-like-sloth-taking-a-shit Java desktop software lead me to believe that your statement isn't entirely true.

This usually seems to be due to bad code, or bad GUI libraries (which Java seems to be the king of)
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