Live data from Hacker News

If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

drdobbs.com

31–40 of 327 posts

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#31
Well... I am one of those guys who hates Java, but I see Java far away from dying.

I know it is not very reliable but Tiobe index is still a decent metric.

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index....

When Visual Basic dies I would start believing that Java could die.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#32
I am really sick of these articles. "Java is alive and well", "Brand new exciting things that tell you Java is still a leader" blah blah blah. To me Java is a great tool, the JVM an even better tool. No one said your favourite language is dying and if they did, they are naive. These articles only give me a small hint that you think java is dying and are trying to do your part to keep it alive.

I guess what boils down to is that I hate articles that give me the impression of desperation. Maybe this is my own problem in the long run so I don't know why I wrote this comment.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#33
post #3

Any talk of Java "dying" is just nonsensical Java hands down is the most obvious choice for any applications that require performance, yet are too complicated to write and support in C/C++/other lower level languages. Java JIT is very mature unlike JITs for most other languages, which largely remain at the level of experimental projects and fall short on key production requirements. Given that the entire Hadoop ecosy…

Like Erlang's GC what all with the 5 9's of uptime it was designed to handle. I mean, come on, the GC algorithm it uses may be battle tested and far simpler than the GC beast that is the JVM but simple is bad, right?

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#34

Aside - I miss the paper Dr. Dobbs' Journal from the early nineties. Is there a modern equivalent?

Dr. Dobb's puts out a monthly PDF issue. It's smaller in terms of content than the paper issues of the 90s, but it's in that mold. Also, the website posts new feature articles every Tuesday, covering a fairly wide range of programming topics. Most articles have code.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#35
post #26
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's why kernels are written in java. If you're writing complex code java is rarely the answer as it requires so much complexity itself. Hint: Most java projects just appear to be complex because of the poor quality of the language (and developers). Java is hands down the choice for simple projects written by way too many poor quality developers. The JVM can barely manage 12 GB of memory, Java is a piece of cr…

I would venture to say, with no facts or figures mind you, that if you were to evaluate the number of lines of code dedicated to kernel programming to that of applications running applications on the Internet, that the resultant figure would be so small for kernel code that it would look like kernel development doesn't even exist. Saying that developers who use Java are poor quality is also an awful thing to say. Yes…

What about java makes it better for high performance / complexity code?

I never said there isn't a lot of java code, or that it doesn't work, my assertion is that java is not the hands down choice for high complexity / performance work.

If you've got a bunch of mediocre programmers who can't be trusted to make + add things together then sure java is a great choice.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#36

Java is dying because it requires more and more resources to make it work. People look at the growing resource requirements and think "wow, look at how Java is growing! We even are teaching middle schoolers Java now!" Wasn't the point of Java to release developers from having to worry about memory? Well, now we have to worry about everything else. It's a failed abstraction and now we have to live with it.

"Wasn't the point of Java to release developers from having to worry about memory?"

I think you're thinking of releasing them from worrying about pointers, which it basically did. When it first came out, its stated goal was to release developers from having to worry about portability, which it did.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#38
post #27
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? Here's the 12 GB of memory... http://www.datastax.com/docs/1.0/operations/tuning As far as the language is concerned... What problem of high performance & complexity apps does Java 7 solve that C++11 doesn't?

C++ is a tool for language experts. If you can effectively apply that expertise it is extremely expressive and efficient. Java does have some unfortunate complexity, but I don't think it is in the same league. Java also includes a library that is more extensive in some areas than the vanilla standard C++ one. The JVM is also more robust to some types of programmer errors than any run time for C++ that I know of.

I'm not talking about how many features the language has, I'm talking about the endless amount of line noise that you need to accomplish simple tasks.

Most of what the code does is hidden behind ceremony.

Imagine Newtown writing out instructions on how to calculate gravity instead of just writing: F = G((m1 m2)/(r^2))

I really don't understand how a language that can't succinctly express calculus from 300 years ago would be regarded as suitable for complex code.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#39
post #25

Java may not be dying, but it does take off early on Fridays for golf. Java is not dying the same way Cobol was not dying 10 years ago. It has a lot of legs left but nobody is 'hoping' to use it, they are told to do so. Java is and always has been almost completely a corporate tool. Again, like Cobol, so the 'cool kids' are not going to give it much love. It's too slow to execute to compete with C++, its too slow to…

I'm fairly certain Java and C++ have comparable speeds, and I think in someways Java's faster.

Java runs about 2x slower than C++ for general CPU-bound stuff - (although it does use much more RAM). That sounds slow, but it's faster than most other languages out there. However, C++ does give you the ability to more easily use processor extensions (SSE, AVX, etc), which you can't use from Java AFAIK - which makes a big difference in performance for certain applications.

Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy

#40

I primarily use java in my day job, and although there's a lot not to like about it, some standard complaints are somewhat overblown. For example, nothing really forces you to use long variable/method names, but even if you do, a modern IDE -- I use IntelliJ -- with auto-completion makes these fairly painless. It's not like you have to type every letter of "SomeClass.veryLongMethodName()" -- rather, you type "SomeCla…

> Similarly, I never type "for (int i = 0; i As someone who didn't realize this existed in Intellij, I think you may have just changed my life :)
Post reply on HN