Java is doing just fine and with the addition of closures in Java 8 I expect the already incredibly rich set of libraries to improve dramatically.
If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
21–30 of 327 posts
Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment is laughable at best. Ignorant might be a better word for it.
Care to elaborate? Here's the 12 GB of memory... http://www.datastax.com/docs/1.0/operations/tuning As far as the language is concerned... What problem of high performance & complexity apps does Java 7 solve that C++11 doesn't?
It solves the problem of using mediocre developers to get code into production. Clunky, slow and overly complicated is infinitely better than a segfault.
Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment is laughable at best. Ignorant might be a better word for it.
Care to elaborate? Here's the 12 GB of memory... http://www.datastax.com/docs/1.0/operations/tuning As far as the language is concerned... What problem of high performance & complexity apps does Java 7 solve that C++11 doesn't?
Automatic memory management...?
"Just use Boost" is not a viable strategy when it adds so much complexity in and of itself.
I'm not defending Java, but it's helpful to know what the limits of each tool are.
Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
#24>A recurring prejudice in the forums where the cool kids hang out (Hacker News, Reddit, etc.) is against Java, the language. Maybe I've been reading a different Hacker News, but I haven't seen this sentiment at all one HN, especially with the love for everything JVM (Clojure, Scala) and all the Database/Big Data tools written in Java (Cassandra, Hadoop, HBase)
I disagree with you and think the statement that you quoted is entirely accurate. People can like the languages and tools built on top of the JVM and implemented in Java, without liking coding in Java the language itself.
Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
#25Java may not be dying, but it does take off early on Fridays for golf. Java is not dying the same way Cobol was not dying 10 years ago. It has a lot of legs left but nobody is 'hoping' to use it, they are told to do so. Java is and always has been almost completely a corporate tool. Again, like Cobol, so the 'cool kids' are not going to give it much love. It's too slow to execute to compete with C++, its too slow to…
I'm fairly certain Java and C++ have comparable speeds, and I think in someways Java's faster.
Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
#26Any talk of Java "dying" is just nonsensical Java hands down is the most obvious choice for any applications that require performance, yet are too complicated to write and support in C/C++/other lower level languages. Java JIT is very mature unlike JITs for most other languages, which largely remain at the level of experimental projects and fall short on key production requirements. Given that the entire Hadoop ecosy…
Yes, that's why kernels are written in java. If you're writing complex code java is rarely the answer as it requires so much complexity itself. Hint: Most java projects just appear to be complex because of the poor quality of the language (and developers). Java is hands down the choice for simple projects written by way too many poor quality developers. The JVM can barely manage 12 GB of memory, Java is a piece of cr…
I would venture to say, with no facts or figures mind you, that if you were to evaluate the number of lines of code dedicated to kernel programming to that of applications running applications on the Internet, that the resultant figure would be so small for kernel code that it would look like kernel development doesn't even exist.
Saying that developers who use Java are poor quality is also an awful thing to say. Yes, there are many "poor" Java developers. But, it's only because there are so many Java developers in the first place. So, of course when you take even a small percentage of such a large number there will still be a large enough sample to look significant. It's the same for all other languages.
Java has been my primary language for the last 14 years. During that time I have worked with countless individuals who I would regard as some of the smartest and most competent programmers (who develop using Java) I have known or heard of. These people make your banks, file sharing sites, massive online market places, electronic billing etc. work. So, go ahead and bash all the developers from Google, Sun, SpringSource, Apache Contributors, Oracle and the other 10,000+ companies out there, but empirical evidence has shown that the language and platform work.
Your statement is just so "trollish"... seriously?
Edit: capitalized Internet. Letting the run-on sentences and bad grammar fly.
Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment is laughable at best. Ignorant might be a better word for it.
Care to elaborate? Here's the 12 GB of memory... http://www.datastax.com/docs/1.0/operations/tuning As far as the language is concerned... What problem of high performance & complexity apps does Java 7 solve that C++11 doesn't?
C++ is a tool for language experts. If you can effectively apply that expertise it is extremely expressive and efficient.
Java does have some unfortunate complexity, but I don't think it is in the same league.
Java also includes a library that is more extensive in some areas than the vanilla standard C++ one.
The JVM is also more robust to some types of programmer errors than any run time for C++ that I know of.
Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
#28Well what do they teach in schools? When I was attaining my degree during the end of the last century, Java (and XML) was being trumpeted as the saving grace for all soon to be software professionals. We were all in love OO programming and this scratched us right where C++ left an itch. Oh Java Beans and Servlets, how we loved thee. It’ll take decades before all the code created by those who came right before me and…
A bit of everything. My classes used Scheme, Java, C, ASM, Python, Lua[1], JavaScript, Prolog, OCaml, Coq... Whatever fits any given subject best. And of course you have a bunch of classes like algorithms and theory which do not use a real programming language at all.
[1]: Okay, not really Lua but a custom language heavily based on it.
Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
#29Well what do they teach in schools? When I was attaining my degree during the end of the last century, Java (and XML) was being trumpeted as the saving grace for all soon to be software professionals. We were all in love OO programming and this scratched us right where C++ left an itch. Oh Java Beans and Servlets, how we loved thee. It’ll take decades before all the code created by those who came right before me and…
I don't think the industry is driven by academia. Plus, no CS degree program worth the paper it's printed on even claims to teach Java. If yours did, I'd ask for a refund. Typically schools USE Java to teach computer science topics, for instance my university used it in the Intro course, where we learned program flow control and some OO principles, and in our Data Structures course where it was nothing more than a to…
All of our (the CS degree program I attended) 100s/200s courses in the late 90's were taught using C. From what I remember they didn't "claim" to use any particular language and basically if they did I wouldn't have known what they were referring to anyway.
Java came onto the scene with much fanfare. It was a big thing and all the professors were quick to foist it upon us.
On a side note, it’s funny for me whenever anyone says they chose the JVM for speed. It’s still ingrained into me that this is not the case. I have to take a second and assure myself this is not 1998, Java is fast now.
Re: If Java Is Dying, It Sure Looks Awfully Healthy
#30I primarily use java in my day job, and although there's a lot not to like about it, some standard complaints are somewhat overblown. For example, nothing really forces you to use long variable/method names, but even if you do, a modern IDE -- I use IntelliJ -- with auto-completion makes these fairly painless. It's not like you have to type every letter of "SomeClass.veryLongMethodName()" -- rather, you type "SomeClass.v" and then hit tab.
Similarly, I never type "for (int i = 0; i So, I'm not particularly persuaded to the "you have to type a lot" complaints.
Similarly, Spring has simplified a lot of stuff that J2EE had previously made overly complicated.
That's not to say that Java doesn't have problems or isn't suboptimal for a certain set of problems. (In fact, it's unclear to me where java might be optimal.)