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Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

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Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#21

Post by anigbrowl »

gaius wrote: post #16
vaksel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw this youtube video of an early 90s broadcast about this thing called internet, and they pretty much talked about how great it is to have a civilized conversation, without trolls. So early on it wasn't a problem, my guess is that trolls probably didn't really appear until AOL.

Specifically, on the Internet , when AOL got a Usenet gateway. No-one cared when they stayed within AOL, not least because AOL had moderators. The real Internet is not HN, it's not Facebook or Livejournal. It's 4chan and the comments on Youtube. That's what we built, that's the glorious future, the pinnacle of high tech, the global collective consciousness. How proud should we be?

Honestly, 4chan just reminds me of alt.* in Septembers. I'm not a regular visitor, but at least 4chan doesn't pretend to be anything other than the filthy underbelly of the net, and the community there has both a sense of humor about itself and genuinely likes kittehs...plus it has the merit of being funny if you're willing to accept the possibility of being offended.

What's really depressing to me is going to visit the San Francisco Chronicle website, CNN or wherever, and seeing the comment space overrun by arrogant idiots who think they're superior to 4chan, or would if they knew about it. I would far rather be trapped in a lift with a bunch of /b/tards than the over-earnest moralists (of all political stripes) that attach themselves like limpets to the mainstream news and political sites.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#22

Post by anigbrowl »

iamelgringo wrote: post #3

One thought after reading this: Troll filtering is a big, wide open market.

I've been thinking about this for a while. What it needs is shareable trust networks, so you can see ratings weighted by the votes of those who you particularly approve of or despise. Attempts at objective moderation just end up creating echo chambers and/or popularity contests.

I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this thread is too small to contain...but I am making notes to write it up in some useful form.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#23

Post by ScottWhigham »

Am I the only one that gets a little pissy thinking that this is nothing but pure content thievery? There was a sum total TWO paragraphs of OC there - the rest was a re-post of Trent's entire post. A link would have sufficed. A couple of quotes would've been fine but the whole post? That's content theft as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#24

Post by dejb »

anigbrowl wrote: post #22
iamelgringo wrote: post #3

One thought after reading this: Troll filtering is a big, wide open market.

I've been thinking about this for a while. What it needs is shareable trust networks, so you can see ratings weighted by the votes of those who you particularly approve of or despise. Attempts at objective moderation just end up creating echo chambers and/or popularity contests. I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this thread is too small to contain...but I am making notes to write it up in some…

> I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this thread is too small to contain

This isn't going to be like Fermat's theorem all over again is it?

Seriously though I agree that you need a system that copes with the fact that different people have different tastes. Not a generic 'good' vs 'bad/spam'.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#25

Post by froo »

adrianwaj wrote: post #14
ghshephard wrote: post #4

Is anybody surprised that, with 600K+ followers, many of whom are already self-selected as "edgy" or "alternate" that some small percentage of them wouldn't be absolutely manical raving lunatics? Trent could probably solve some of this with technology and create a self-policing environment, in which a core group of half-sane fans could administrate/police/censor to the betterment of all - There's a reason why Wikiped…

Quite right, and that's got a lot to do with NIN's style of music. You wouldn't expect Lionel Ritchie to experience the same thing if he emulated Reznor online. He'd probably get some middle-aged air-heads but no suicidal mischief-makers.

You wouldn't expect Lionel Ritchie to experience the same thing if he emulated Reznor online.

Well, having been on the receiving end of something I thought I'd share my experience. There are raving lunatic fans all around the place, regardless of what genre the artists are in.

During the campaign to get Rick Astley voted as Best Act Ever for last years MTV Europe Music Awards, I started receiving large volumes of hate mail from one or two of Astley's fans (I've never seen anything quite like it before or since... and I've seen some pretty angry emails).

I was also getting some quite vitriolic comments posted about me by these same fans on many blogs around the web (Thanks Google Alerts!)... these fans, I found out, just happened to be women in their mid 40's who have a "thing" for Astley.

Having spoken to several people close to Astley (I can't say who) they have mentioned who these people are and that they were "loonies" and could effectively be ignored.

So, I imagine Reznor would get more than his fair share and I feel for him, I really do (I experienced about 3 weeks of it, and that was 3 weeks too much) - raving lunatic fans are everywhere.

Anyway, back to the story at hand, I think Trent talking about verified forum profiles is great, but I think that you could take it one step further.

Some sort of centralised system for verified identities online with a simple API that people could plug into their forums/comment systems on blogs.

Only want verified people to comment on your blog - easy, same with forums? - easy

I think when you start removing the anonymous posting aspect of parts of the web, it becomes civil. That's why I never post anywhere anonymously, I self regulate and I find I don't troll - unfortunately I expect there is a significant contingent online that don't have the same self control and do cause problems for others.

I think right now is that we're seeing a tipping point from when trolling was an accepted fact of the web the experience that new users are experiencing as how to act given it's becoming more widespread, and those people are simply emulating that.

It's a problem that is just snowballing.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#26

Post by cLive »

inerte wrote: post #15
vaksel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw this youtube video of an early 90s broadcast about this thing called internet, and they pretty much talked about how great it is to have a civilized conversation, without trolls. So early on it wasn't a problem, my guess is that trolls probably didn't really appear until AOL.

I remember this story about a psychologist who pretented to be a woman, and I don't remember exactly who, or where, but it was in a movie about the net beginnings... Found... don't know if it counts as a troll, tough: Google for "The Strange Case of the Electronic Lover"

You are talking about the student researcher Selena Sol:

http://selenasol.com/selena/

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#27

Post by mapleoin »

ScottWhigham wrote: post #23

Am I the only one that gets a little pissy thinking that this is nothing but pure content thievery? There was a sum total TWO paragraphs of OC there - the rest was a re-post of Trent's entire post. A link would have sufficed. A couple of quotes would've been fine but the whole post? That's content theft as far as I'm concerned.

there's the link to the original post at the beginning. I found reading the whole post on stereogum's site more relaxing however.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#28

Post by TJensen »

vaksel wrote: post #10
tdavis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're on a version way past 1... that has been the result for many years now. The second person on the Internet was probably a troll.

I saw this youtube video of an early 90s broadcast about this thing called internet, and they pretty much talked about how great it is to have a civilized conversation, without trolls. So early on it wasn't a problem, my guess is that trolls probably didn't really appear until AOL.

Yeah, I don't buy it. I was on the intertubes in the early nineties, and I distinctly remember trolls running around Usenet.

That said, the caliber of trolling may have been slightly higher. :)

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#29

Post by sho »

gaius wrote: post #16
vaksel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw this youtube video of an early 90s broadcast about this thing called internet, and they pretty much talked about how great it is to have a civilized conversation, without trolls. So early on it wasn't a problem, my guess is that trolls probably didn't really appear until AOL.

Specifically, on the Internet , when AOL got a Usenet gateway. No-one cared when they stayed within AOL, not least because AOL had moderators. The real Internet is not HN, it's not Facebook or Livejournal. It's 4chan and the comments on Youtube. That's what we built, that's the glorious future, the pinnacle of high tech, the global collective consciousness. How proud should we be?

Why the 4chan hate? It is what it is, doesn't pretend to be anything else, and there's a place for it. At its best, 4chan can be great.

You can't compare that to YouTube comments at all. 4chan's about lulz, not pure unadulterated stupidity. They're not the same at all.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#30

Post by tdavis »

gaius wrote: post #16
vaksel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw this youtube video of an early 90s broadcast about this thing called internet, and they pretty much talked about how great it is to have a civilized conversation, without trolls. So early on it wasn't a problem, my guess is that trolls probably didn't really appear until AOL.

Specifically, on the Internet , when AOL got a Usenet gateway. No-one cared when they stayed within AOL, not least because AOL had moderators. The real Internet is not HN, it's not Facebook or Livejournal. It's 4chan and the comments on Youtube. That's what we built, that's the glorious future, the pinnacle of high tech, the global collective consciousness. How proud should we be?

The comments on Youtube and 4chan have absolutely nothing in common. One is a group of people who recognize they're acting like idiotic jackasses and do it because they find it humorous. The other group is simply mentally retarded.
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