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Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

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Re: Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

#101
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does programming fit into this? It feels a bit in-between. On the one hand, you tell the computer what to do, in a way that feels similar to Type 2; on the other hand, you actually have to do the work of programming, which feels much like Type 1, except you're not moving physical matter around, but stuff in 'concept space'.

In all seriousness, I've long thought of what I do as moving electrons around, getting pits onto CDs in the right place, things like that. Whatever I do in, say, C++-land, is a means to those ends. An intermediate step. I arrived at that way of thinking after trying to define 'work', and deciding that it always consists of moving matter around (transporting it, putting it into a desired configuration).

Interesting conclusion. However, notice that most of the energy (in thermodynamical sense) in this "work" is not spent on moving electrons in the computer around, nor even in the C++-land, but in concept-space. We do our work by building castles in the air out of abstract mental structures, and only then we formalize it in code that moves electrons around.

When I look at the end results of work, I come to the same conclusion that indeed it ultimately consists of reconfiguring matter. That's what we need to do to reach whatever goals we have. Maybe the conceptspace work maps to the levels of intricacy of the end-result matter configuration, i.e. the more complex, precise thing you want to get, the more energy you need to expend on thinking rather than arranging atoms. It's easier to move a ton of bricks from one place to another than to design a microprocessor.

So I guess that ultimately I agree with your comment.

(disclaimer: writing this after two beers)

Re: Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

#103
post #48
post #28

There is this thing about ancient China: each son, when his father died, had to mourn for three years. Yes, three years. And it meant stopping your official occupation, e.g. official employment. (This didn't apply to the peasant). Result: most of the great products of Chinese culture are a direct consequence of this forced idleness.

Could you provide a source for this conclusion? I'm interested in the idea, but can't find anything on it.

It has been mentioned in Essays on China by Simon Leys (I read it in French).

Re: Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

#104
post #64

There are a number of beautiful places in the United States where it is possible for a person to subsist quite luxuriously on $1200/mo and preserve the ability to throw parties for friends, buy books and tools, etc. As of January a person with such income will have free Medicare in Oregon. "Fuck You" money is an illusion that keeps you working. The mind loves to believe that having enough of some external thing will…

yea, but you still need $360k or so to be able to withdraw $1200/month forever without worry. That's still a decent chunk of change. I guess you can save it in 5 years, but if you don't like working those 5 years will be hellaciously long

Working part time seems a decent compromise. There's no reason you have to live off of savings only.

Re: Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

#105
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reputation as a moral authority His treatment of his first wife should have ruled out any idea he was a moral authority.

Well, maybe. It's a bit hard to tell from that one-liner whether you're being serious or glib, but the question of how the great man or woman treats the people closest to him or her is a tricky one. I agree that it's relevant, but it hasn't traditionally been considered to be. And we never have access to the full story. Everyone knows from their own personal life how utterly different things can look up close than th…

Meh. The world has suffered enough from "the classic intellectual type with strong affections for humanity in the abstract and the people around him not so much". I'd much rather listen to someone who's attached to others and behaves decently towards them.

(I've got a particular bias against Gandhi for what that so-called "moral paragon" famously said about the Holocaust.)

Re: Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

#106
post #75

The method of a leisure class without duties was, however, extraordinarily wasteful. None of the members of the class had to be taught to be industrious, and the class as a whole was not exceptionally intelligent. The class might produce one Darwin, but against him had to be set tens of thousands of country gentlemen who never thought of anything more intelligent than fox-hunting and punishing poachers. I'm down. We…

The problem is the decision to do this is never in the hands of the wage-earners... Only the powerful and rich can really change this reality, and it's clearly not aligned with their interests.

The standard 8 hour / 5 day work week in Europe did not happen after some day the rich and powerful decided it, far from it. Strong labor unions were the key into making it a reality. While they might be impeding financial growth and make some things more bureaucratic, the increase in living conditions makes them worth it.

Re: Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

#107
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe. It's a bit hard to tell from that one-liner whether you're being serious or glib, but the question of how the great man or woman treats the people closest to him or her is a tricky one. I agree that it's relevant, but it hasn't traditionally been considered to be. And we never have access to the full story. Everyone knows from their own personal life how utterly different things can look up close than th…

Meh. The world has suffered enough from "the classic intellectual type with strong affections for humanity in the abstract and the people around him not so much". I'd much rather listen to someone who's attached to others and behaves decently towards them. (I've got a particular bias against Gandhi for what that so-called "moral paragon" famously said about the Holocaust.)

For others who are curious about the Gandhi reference, here's what I dug up:

"“Hitler,” Gandhi solemnly affirmed, “killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs. I believe in hara-kiri. I do not believe in its militaristic connotations, but it is a heroic method.”

“You think,” I said, “that the Jews should have committed collective suicide?”

“Yes,” Gandhi agreed,” that would have been heroism. It would have aroused the world and the people of Germany to the evils of Hitler’s violence, especially in 1938, before the war. As it is they succumbed anyway in their millions.”"

http://stevereads.com/weblog/2007/12/10/gandhi-the-jewish-vi...

Re: Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

#108

"If he merely puts his savings in a stocking, like the proverbial French peasant, it is obvious that they do not give employment." What is "obvious" to Bertrand Russell is bad economics. When the peasant puts his money in a stocking, he causes a slight deflation, so prices decrease, which increases the value of everyone else's money. So everyone else effectively has more to spend, if they want to. However, everyone e…

That's not how deflation works. If it was, it would be far less painful.

Re: Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

#109
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all seriousness, I've long thought of what I do as moving electrons around, getting pits onto CDs in the right place, things like that. Whatever I do in, say, C++-land, is a means to those ends. An intermediate step. I arrived at that way of thinking after trying to define 'work', and deciding that it always consists of moving matter around (transporting it, putting it into a desired configuration).

Interesting conclusion. However, notice that most of the energy (in thermodynamical sense) in this "work" is not spent on moving electrons in the computer around, nor even in the C++-land, but in concept-space. We do our work by building castles in the air out of abstract mental structures, and only then we formalize it in code that moves electrons around. When I look at the end results of work, I come to the same co…

[deleted]

Re: Bertrand Russell: In Praise of Idleness (1932)

#110
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does programming fit into this? It feels a bit in-between. On the one hand, you tell the computer what to do, in a way that feels similar to Type 2; on the other hand, you actually have to do the work of programming, which feels much like Type 1, except you're not moving physical matter around, but stuff in 'concept space'.

In all seriousness, I've long thought of what I do as moving electrons around, getting pits onto CDs in the right place, things like that. Whatever I do in, say, C++-land, is a means to those ends. An intermediate step. I arrived at that way of thinking after trying to define 'work', and deciding that it always consists of moving matter around (transporting it, putting it into a desired configuration).

I disagree. What programming is doing is "telling [something] what to do." The difference is that instead of telling people what to do, we are telling inanimate idiots what to do, and therefore it is not necessarily pleasant, and highly pedantic.

The output of a programmer is the output of their mind, not of their muscles. I've stacked boxes in a warehouse and that sort of work is altogether different from telling transistors when to output a high voltage instead of a low voltage, which is fundamentally what we are doing when we are programming.

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