Earlier quoted context omitted.
In what language are you rewriting the backend?
Bet it's Java.
Go
Node.js and the new web front-end
131–140 of 163 posts
Re: Node.js and the new web front-end
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Devil advocating: I coded exclusively in javascript from 2006-2011. Most of that time was spent at Meebo, where we authored one of the most sophisticated JS application in existence at the time. It was great stuff! I've worked extensively with node.js 2011-mid2013, launching multiple backends written partially and exclusively in node. Lots of fun! On https://github.com/marcuswestin I maintain multiple widely used ope…
> Because static type analysis allows you to develop more accurate code faster and with lower maintenance cost. This statement may be true for you, but it's not for everyone. It's a dangerous argument because it assumes that static types are going to somehow magically turn bad code into good code, or (by extension) bad coders into good ones. Static typing is a not a solution to the problem of any deficiencies in the…
I also said:
> (and with all that said, the most important thing to consider is this: what tool will best allow you and your team to build and maintain your intended product?)
I'd defend the statement you quoted like this: all languages are type. Dynamic languages simply have exactly one expression type, "any". Specifying multiple types affords you strictly beneficial abilities. Static type checks is probably the most significant. Performance improvements and highly specific and accurate code editing assistance (e.g auto suggest) can also be significant.
But yes, you're absolutely right. Nothing but sincere effort, lots of practice, and critical thinking can make you a better programmer.
At the same time, a great carpenter becomes even so much better with a properly weighted hammer and an accurate lever.
:)
Re: Node.js and the new web front-end
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think Typescript solves a lot of these problems. The type system is amazing, conversions are explicit. Syntax is slightly improved, built-in class system. The others I don't really mind: I like writing event-loop code over threads, and have never once run into Object.prototype problems in the wild.
What's so good about TypeScript's type system and what problem does it solve?
Almost no one realizes this, but the main purpose of TypeScript is to negate one of JavaScript's greatest advantages which is the lack of typing. This is an advantage because it makes code easier to write and read.
The problem that TypeScript solves is that the web platform is in direct conflict with Microsoft's monopolies in PC gaming and business productivity software (Office). Confusing developers into thinking that JavaScript needs types leads them down the path of statically typed languages, i.e. C# and Microsoft's proprietary and closed .NET Framework and software ecosystem.
Re: Node.js and the new web front-end
#134This new javascript wave in which we eschew the needs of the consumer is going to start costing companies big. Processing power, memory, and power consumption are still a pretty big deal in the mobile sector and offloading all these responsibilities to build the view client-side are a huge mistake. Engineers that make their lives easier at the expense of the customer will find themselves in a very empty and very opti…
The advantage with JavaScript is that you can run the same rendering code on the backend for static pre-rendering as you can on the front end.
Re: Node.js and the new web front-end
#135I code a lot in JS these days and I find this divide suggestion interesting. Though I'm proficient in JS, I don't trust myself enough to write server stuff in JS - for ex: while an accidental global access likely has limited consequences on the browser side, it can result in data cross talk between users on the server side. So I do prefer the help offered by some static typing. Even go feels better, Haskell would roc…
I don't understand what you mean by "ui front end at the back end". I think maybe I can guess but really not sure at all.
I don't see how static typing is really necessary to prevent you from storing user-specific data in a global and sending someone another user's data. Seems like that would be fairly straightforward to detect and avoid and I don't think you would usually be tempted to use a global for something like that. You could use a session variable or database.
If you have never worked on the back end, then you are right to be afraid of doing something wrong. However, you are incorrect if you think that means you are likely to make a serious error that you can't correct and therefore shouldn't try. Back end programming is in fact less complex than front-end programming today. So you should jump in. You will learn the most important things you need within a few months.
When you upload a file this generally happens as an HTTP POST. Usually this is sent to your own back-end server code. And without special headers on the target domain your browser won't even allow you to POST to another third-party server. This I think is the issue you are talking about when you mention accessing independent REST services -- that needs to use JSONP or have CORS enabled on the third party server.
Of course you may not need to learn anything about back-end programming because you can in fact build just about any kind of application these days without using your own server at all, just by integrating a number of third-party APIs and running everything from the browser.
Re: Node.js and the new web front-end
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't have an adequate type system. There are too many silent conversions. The syntax is very clunky. All the object systems feel hacky and they can't be relied on to interoperate with each other. Problems like no standardized threading support or decimal type could be resolved in the future. But the language as it exists currently lets you override everything, and that's the sort of thing that you can't remove…
If you use jshint (it will yell at you when using == with non-null) much (all?) of these problems go away.
Unfortunately, concatenation can still be a mess if you don't know how it works. And sometimes in spite of knowing how it works.
Re: Node.js and the new web front-end
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hadn't heard of Typescript, but I think we'll be seeing a lot more efforts along these lines. Despite the pain and inelegance of compiling something to Javascript, I see two inexorable forces that will lead a lot of smart engineers in that direction. First, running the same UI code on the front-end and back-end will enable the best performing apps across platforms. Imagine being able to run a rich client on a power…
Where have you been hiding? There's been a virtual explosion in the number of languages that compile down to JS[1] in just the past 1-2 years, and TypeScript is probably the youngest of them all. CoffeeScript[2] is another big one, I believe it's much more Ruby-like. There's even 7 projects involving Haskell. 1. http://altjs.org/ 2. http://coffeescript.org/
Well I'm a Ruby guy so I'm definitely aware of Coffeescript, but mostly I'm just not starting a lot of greenfield projects these days :(
Re: Node.js and the new web front-end
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's so good about TypeScript's type system and what problem does it solve?
Almost no one realizes this, but the main purpose of TypeScript is to negate one of JavaScript's greatest advantages which is the lack of typing. This is an advantage because it makes code easier to write and read. The problem that TypeScript solves is that the web platform is in direct conflict with Microsoft's monopolies in PC gaming and business productivity software (Office). Confusing developers into thinking th…
I think optional typing is better than no typing. It's useful for allowing APIs to be self documenting. It seems as if optional typing is going to get more and more popular. For example, see Google's optional typing in dart, where they actually recommend to not use types for local variables:
https://www.dartlang.org/articles/style-guide/#type-annotati...
Re: Node.js and the new web front-end
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's so good about TypeScript's type system and what problem does it solve?
Almost no one realizes this, but the main purpose of TypeScript is to negate one of JavaScript's greatest advantages which is the lack of typing. This is an advantage because it makes code easier to write and read. The problem that TypeScript solves is that the web platform is in direct conflict with Microsoft's monopolies in PC gaming and business productivity software (Office). Confusing developers into thinking th…
The "Open Web" is closed to one single language choice that was made for you by someone else. TypeScript is being developed, because Microsoft adapts to where the world is moving and they are just trying to avert the disaster that will happen when enterprises will actually start trying developing whole applications in JS. And Google is developing a higher-order version language as well. Nobody developed a language to run on top of Java, C#, C++, but there is a plenty of choice for JS: Dart, TypeScript, CoffeeScript etc.
Re: Node.js and the new web front-end
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't have an adequate type system. There are too many silent conversions. The syntax is very clunky. All the object systems feel hacky and they can't be relied on to interoperate with each other. Problems like no standardized threading support or decimal type could be resolved in the future. But the language as it exists currently lets you override everything, and that's the sort of thing that you can't remove…
Once ES6 will kick in, things will get better. Right now it's definitely a shit storm.
Yeah, things will be so much better in year 2050.