David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here • Hacker News Board

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#21

Post by jlgreco » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:19 PM UTC

bkirkbri wrote: post #9

jlgreco wrote: post #3

What's he want, more rent control? To put "the 1%" 'up against a wall'? What is this article other than a whiny complaint, pandering to the envious masses?

> What's he want, more rent control? That's one option. > To put "the 1%" 'up against a wall'? That kind of hyperbole is unwarranted given the very reasonable tone of the article. > What is this article other than a whiny complaint, pandering to the envious masses? I'd call it an astute observation by a creative, intelligent person about the city in which lives.

A hyperbolic call to action is more useful than no call to action at all. This sort of article really rubs me the wrong way, I apologize for my overly abrasive tone.

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#22

Post by busterarm » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:21 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #18

busterarm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent control is Who do you expect to do for service workers? Honestly. Do you expect those people to live in squalid conditions 20 to a room like we did 100 years ago? Are you aware that that rents even within a 2hr commute distance do not decline enough to be affordable (except in a declining number of bad neighborhoods)? You can live on the Metro North/Amtrak routes as far up as Poughkeepsie and still pay $1200-$16…

there are a shitload of rent stabilized apartments though ... http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/faq/rentstab.html#d... "Rents Stabilization FAQ See also Rent Control FAQ's Is there a difference between RENT CONTROL and RENT STABILIZATION? What exactly is rent stabilization? Can my landlord evict me and use my stabilized apartment for his family, and how many apartments in the building can he take? What happens…

Rent Stabilization isn't all it's cracked up to be. Everyone I know in Rent Stabilized apartments has dealt with large rent increases with some regularity.

Even so, rent regulation is _not_ the problem. It's primarily the parking requirement and secondarily the zoning issues. All the co-op and condo owners who dominate most fo the neighborhoods affected WANT it to be this way because it keeps the price of their homes up.

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#23

Post by busterarm » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:24 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #16

busterarm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent control is Who do you expect to do for service workers? Honestly. Do you expect those people to live in squalid conditions 20 to a room like we did 100 years ago? Are you aware that that rents even within a 2hr commute distance do not decline enough to be affordable (except in a declining number of bad neighborhoods)? You can live on the Metro North/Amtrak routes as far up as Poughkeepsie and still pay $1200-$16…

That 40k number is flat out wrong. "But even in Manhattan, nearly half of all rental apartments are rent-stabilized." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/realestate/rent-stabilized...

We're talking about two different things here. I'm talking specifically about rent control.

I know what I'm talking about, I live(d) in a rent controlled apartment since birth.

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#24

Post by k-mcgrady » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:25 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #12

TheLegace wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what Toronto is trying to do by subsidizing housing in metropolitan area. People maybe inclined to argue against subsidizing more expensive housing in downtown areas, but the cost of commuting from lower income outer areas actually increases pollution, and traffic costs. It also breaks the poverty cycle by preventing geographic and possibly cultural segregation of the lower income families.

Toronto has a really interesting problem to solve. 1/6 of the entire population of Canada lives in the GTA. That's simply stunning to me, especially since having spent a great deal of time up there, it doesn't feel that dense to me. Honestly though, Toronto needs housing in the downtown areas. I haven't been there in 7-8 years but other than tourists and shopping, the streets around the business districts felt pretty…

I agree. I spent 6 months living in Toronto and trying to find an affordable place to live downtown was difficult (I ended up about 30mins north of downtown).

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#25

Post by doktrin » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:25 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #7

I have a book of jokes from the 1970's. One of the jokes is "if it weren't for the muggings, there would be no human contact in New York." I remember reading it recently and finding it so anachronistic. The idea of getting mugged in Manhattan or Queens or Brooklyn seems so alien to me today (though I remember as a visitor in the early 1990's the same areas seemed quite post-apocalyptic). My point is... take off the r…

Did you read the whole piece before commenting? The author specifically mentions the hardships you describe.

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#26

Post by tootie » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:25 PM UTC

I don't think he really proved his thesis. It seems like NYC is churning out artists at a faster rate than ever before. Most of our finest amenities and cultural institutions are thoroughly available to the 99%. I was at Brooklyn Bridge Park this weekend and it just felt like the pinnacle of urban society. The underpriveleged get cheap lacrosse lessons (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/nyregion/adding-diversity-...), Smorgasburg was grillin' up maple bacon, the hibachis in the picnic area were firing, kids were swinging on tires, there were soccer teams and amateur anglers pulling in East River bluefish. It was utterly spectacular.

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#27

Post by jlgreco » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:26 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #15

rayiner wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, you can get perfectly nice 1 bedroom apartments in Mt. Vernon for $800/month, and that's a 30-minute metro north ride from midtown manhattan. I used to live in New Rochelle, which is a 35 minute ride from Midtown. The high-rises right next to the train station are pretty expensive ($1500 for a studio), but there is a ton of affordable housing within a 15 minute walk. It's a town of mostly working-class hispanic i…

Do you own a car? How difficult is it to live where you do without a car? I was mostly speaking about the areas near the train station that you mentioned yeah. Those prices are pretty high for the commute time that you end up having. A 15 minute walk is okay but any longer than that might be very difficult for some people.

Barring handicaps, I think a 15-30 minute walk is reasonable for most people, particularly the sort of people who might be looking to live in a car-lite city. 30 minutes at a leisurely pace is only 2 miles, I do that twice a day and I live and work in the same city (I also have a car, but clogging the streets and the air with it every day just to go 2 miles seems practically criminal to me). For somebody living outside the city, that is pretty good.

Now granted, their commute is going to be longer since that 15-30 minutes is in addition to the rest of their commute, not the entirety of it, but you can't live outside the city you are working in and expect snappy commutes.

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#28

Post by rayiner » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:27 PM UTC

moogleii wrote: post #19

rayiner wrote: post #7

I have a book of jokes from the 1970's. One of the jokes is "if it weren't for the muggings, there would be no human contact in New York." I remember reading it recently and finding it so anachronistic. The idea of getting mugged in Manhattan or Queens or Brooklyn seems so alien to me today (though I remember as a visitor in the early 1990's the same areas seemed quite post-apocalyptic). My point is... take off the r…

Quote from the article: "I don't romanticize the bad old days. I find the drop in crime over the last couple of decades refreshing. Manhattan and Brooklyn, those vibrant playgrounds, are way less scary than they were when I moved here. I have no illusions that there was a connection between that city on its knees and a flourishing of creativity; I don't believe that crime, danger and poverty make for good art. That's…

What he fails to raelize is that the drop in crime is the result of the "Disney-ization" of New York City. All that "1%" money has been funneled into policing, redevelopment, etc.

Contrast: Philadelphia. In the 1970's, New York and Philadelphia were pretty similar. But New York was fortunate to be host to the financial boom of the 1980's, 1990's, and early 2000's, while Philadelphia saw its core industries continue to decline. Today, the per-capita murder rate in Philadelphia is more than 4x higher than New York's.

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#29

Post by busterarm » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #27

busterarm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you own a car? How difficult is it to live where you do without a car? I was mostly speaking about the areas near the train station that you mentioned yeah. Those prices are pretty high for the commute time that you end up having. A 15 minute walk is okay but any longer than that might be very difficult for some people.

Barring handicaps, I think a 15-30 minute walk is reasonable for most people, particularly the sort of people who might be looking to live in a car-lite city. 30 minutes at a leisurely pace is only 2 miles, I do that twice a day and I live and work in the same city (I also have a car, but clogging the streets and the air with it every day just to go 2 miles seems practically criminal to me) . For somebody living outs…

What if you're over 40? Lower income often means poor health. Let's try not to approach this problem from our typically young working healthy professional perspective. Most of us are making more money than the people we're really talking about here.

Also, can you really live in these areas and shop without a car? I find the answer to that question to rarely be yes.

Re: David Byrne: If the 1% stifles New York's creative talent, I'm out of here

#30

Post by gaius » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 6:29 PM UTC

Has there ever been a time without massive inequality in NYC? It's been a standard theme in TV and films for as long as I can remember that Manhattan is stunning wealth right next to Harlem's grinding poverty. Look at Eddie Murphy films from the 80s, Coming To America, Trading Places, etc. What's different now?