Why Java Now Rocks More Than Ever: Part 1 – The Java Compiler

Post by rsynnott » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 3:15 PM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #55

alayne wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 20-50x performance tradeoff is a hard pill to swallow though. I'd love to see a better performing dynamic language that isn't as minimal as Lua.

Is that really the case in real world loads? I have always thought that the moment you avoid blocking io and code almost any language is fast enough. And usually the problems come from bad design.

Post by saryant » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 3:18 PM UTC

specialist wrote: post #50

petercooper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem of many is that Java is quite verbose, and while IDEs like Eclipse help with this, there's a significant contingent of open source developers who both refuse to use typical IDEs and who also like to manually manipulate their code rather than let an IDE tweak it about. Languages like Ruby and Python make that easily manageable in a way Java doesn't.

Honest question: Are their refactoring IDEs for Ruby, Python, or other dynamically typed languages? Agree 100% about Java's verboseness. I really want type inference, lightweight objects, properties (vs JavaBean accessor convention), switch for 'instanceof', etc. However. Java's verbosity is nothing compared to the verbosity of the common APIs and frameworks. All that DI, IoC, configuration via markup, etc. are terri…

  trait Foo
  class Bar extends Foo
  class Baz extends Foo

  val thing = // could be either bar or baz, don't know  

  thing match {
    case f: Foo => println("Got foo")
    case b: Bar => println("Got bar")
  }

Post by pron » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 3:19 PM UTC

deong wrote: post #60

pron wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Go is pretty much a JVM-less Java. To me, it seems the exact wrong things to take from Java. Go takes the language (Go is a simplified Java, with some modern improvements) - which is only OK, but drops the JVM, which is awesome. It does have one advantage over the JVM, which is a much shorter startup time. But Java has better performance and far better monitoring tools (as well as dynamic linking and hot code s…

I think calling Go a simplified Java is pretty far off the mark. Aside from both aiming at the niche of being sort of "medium-level" languages, for lack of a better term, Go's approach seems very different from Java's. Objects vs structs and functions, exceptions vs multiple return values, required static vs required dynamic linking, implicit vs explicit subtyping/interfaces, etc. Go is C with added convenience.

Post by hugofirth » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 3:20 PM UTC

petercooper wrote: post #17

sgt wrote: post #14

Java is rapidly becoming more viable as an alternative to all of these "trendy" languages these days, e.g. Ruby, Python, Go. What I mean by that is simply that a lot of developers are prejudicious against Java due to historically it being slow and having tedious development feedback cycles. We use Java extensively (and Java EE 6) in an agile IT business and it is truly an asset. I encourage others to look in the dire…

One problem of many is that Java is quite verbose, and while IDEs like Eclipse help with this, there's a significant contingent of open source developers who both refuse to use typical IDEs and who also like to manually manipulate their code rather than let an IDE tweak it about. Languages like Ruby and Python make that easily manageable in a way Java doesn't.

Post by RivieraKid » Mon, Oct 07, 2013, 3:21 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #64

One of the things I see with Java today, how difficult things have gotten with the language. Its next impossible to deal with any large Java project without an IDE. The verbosity of the code is mind boggling. Often method calls are 4 - 6 layers deep, which in itself makes is very difficult to remember or even implement even if you read the documentation well. The resulting code is massive walls of text. 90% of that i…