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Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

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Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#71

Post by tensor »

wellboy wrote: post #69
wellboy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Founders that had had successful startups before don't count. That's why I was referring to "experience BEFORE you try to do your own thing." And yes there are a few startup founders that were older than 30, I give you Larry Ellison. However none of the 4 horsemen had founders >30, plus the other founders except for Peter Thiel had already sold their previous startups. Regarding Palantir, they had Peter Thiel as a co…

I don't want to be ageist or anything, I just like discovering facts. Except for Peter Thiel who was 31, 1 year above, only Larry Ellison is a first time founder, all the other ones where very successful before. Huffington Post is not a billion dollar company, since it was acquired for US$315 million by AOL 2 years ago.

I'm not sure if you are intentionally lying, or just didn't bother, again, to do any research.

Reid Hoffman started his first company at 30. Mark Pincus at 29 (just one year shy!). Excluding Huffington simply because it didn't meet your arbitrarily set profitability threshold is unfair.

Hell, even Google had Eric Schmidt help run the company at the start. Eric was 46 at the time, though surely you claim "but he's not a founder!"

Data is somewhat hard to collect for this topic, but see:

http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/28/peak-age-entrepreneurship/

> The research shows that an older age is actually a better predictor of entrepreneurial success, and that three other traits also correlate strongly to success: strong fluid intelligence, high openness, and moderate agreeableness.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#72

Post by argumentum »

The best way to learn, anything, is by trying, failing and iterating. This is true (for me at least) in programming and otherwise. I generally believe you should stay in school, and more importantly stay learning technical stuff (whether undergrad, grad school or in a technically challenging job). It's the best way to get ideas, and more importantly find people to work with (if you want to start a company). So I do harbor doubts about the Thiel Fellowship (though I happen to know quite a few talented kids in the program, and think it's working well for most of them).

However, you will not learn how to be a Founder/CEO without being a Founder/CEO. Some have a natural ability at this, but 99% of even the best CEOs probably just have the ability to learn quickly on their feet. By the time their mistakes might be noticed, they've already learned and corrected them.

The only thing you'll learn by working your way up the corporate ladder is how to work your way up the corporate ladder. The stuff about learning how to work hard is BS. If you want to do a startup and hope things will happen for you, you probably believe in an all-powerful being that has a plan for you.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#73

Post by nostrademons »

maaku wrote: post #31
vinceguidry wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really worth going back to school. I dropped out to join the military. (Later left that too) 10 years later, every time I think about going back I think, "why?". I've already got a job, and I make decent money. I'd learn much more, faster, by taking on more responsibilities here than I would in some sandbox environment. Unless I went to, like, Harvard or something.

... which is actually an argument for staying in school in the first place. Once you're out, the realities of life make it very difficult to go back.

Is it? That argument assumes that school is worthwhile in the first place. If you assume your conclusion, it seems an awful lot like begging the question.

If you don't go to school, live your life, and find out everything is just hunky-dory without it - what exactly have you missed out on? Maybe you were right in the first place, and can congratulate yourself on making wise decisions that turned out to be vindicated in the end?

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#74

Post by nostrademons »

thejulielogan wrote: post #50
zhemao wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you will at least learn how not to do it.

Not true. Rarely do you (a cog) see the hiring process (a different cog) used by your massive company (the machine). Especially when you're just out of college.

Hmm? I've done interviews for both of my past two employers. The first one was a startup, but the second one is Google.

Do the big companies you work for not have people interview with employees in their particular role? It seems relatively common among my friends for them to be interviewing people just 1-2 years younger than them, either for internships or to fill the position they're about to be promoted out of.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#75

Post by nostrademons »

timr wrote: post #22
lincolnq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies fail without hiring a single non-founder! How can management be a factor in these failures? I would suspect that poor management is a contributor to high-profile failures. But only a minor factor for startups in general. Not making something people want, and giving up too early, are far more critical problems for early-stage companies than mismanagement, and there are a lot more early-stage companies t…

"Most companies fail without hiring a single non-founder! How can management be a factor in these failures?" Most young startups fail because of founder disputes. Working closely with another person is a skill gained with time and experience, and has a lot in common with management.

Well, that's true, but it's also a skill that has a lot in common with dating, being in a relationship, maintaining friendships, or having a good relationship with your parents. Should we recommend founders do that too? (Actually, maybe we should.)

I think management is important. I think interpersonal skills are important. I don't think that either of them are the most important reason that startups fail. I think that market is.

When I look at the many projects I've worked on, led, or had firsthand experience with, working at a big company, the biggest common denominator was that all the successes were things worth doing. And the failures, barring some glaringly mis-managed ones, were things not worth doing. When you're working on something worth doing, a pressing problem for the company or your users, all the wind is at your back. You naturally find lots of other talented people willing to work with you; they forgive your little screwups and move on; and you don't have trouble getting more resources once you can demonstrate some minor successes.

By contrast, I've known some incredibly talented managers - we're talking folks who have sold companies to Google, who have worked on products with userbases in the billions, who have managed hundreds of people successfully before - that crashed and burned because the project they were working on fundamentally did not need to be done. Good management makes a good project go more smoothly; it cannot transform a bad project into a good project.

That's probably the biggest thing I've taken away from my big-company experience, and the one that (should I choose to start a startup again) alters my thinking the most. With my last startup, I thought "Well, the idea isn't quite all the way there yet, but solid engineering and raw talent can take it across the finish line." This time, I'd be much more likely to insist on verifying it with real users and making sure that they really, really want it before getting other people (beyond a cofounder) involved or taking it to investors.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#76

Post by nostrademons »

seiji wrote: post #67
UK-AL wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just plain offensive. If you start trying to command people like you command dogs, people are just going to disrespect you. You will have no power. People don't react to pain/rewards like dogs do. They see through it instantly.

They see through it instantly. You vastly overestimate the competency of people.

It's more that if you treat people like dogs, only the people who already think of themselves like dogs will be willing to hang around with you. They do, after all, have freedom of association. So if you find that you're surrounded by idiots, it's not that the world is full of idiots, it's that the way you treat people ensures that only idiots will hang out with you.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#77

Post by maaku »

nostrademons wrote: post #73
maaku wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... which is actually an argument for staying in school in the first place. Once you're out, the realities of life make it very difficult to go back.

Is it? That argument assumes that school is worthwhile in the first place. If you assume your conclusion, it seems an awful lot like begging the question. If you don't go to school, live your life, and find out everything is just hunky-dory without it - what exactly have you missed out on? Maybe you were right in the first place, and can congratulate yourself on making wise decisions that turned out to be vindicated…

The OP said he has thought about going back multiple times. Obviously it has some value to him.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#78

Post by thejulielogan »

nostrademons wrote: post #74
thejulielogan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Rarely do you (a cog) see the hiring process (a different cog) used by your massive company (the machine). Especially when you're just out of college.

Hmm? I've done interviews for both of my past two employers. The first one was a startup, but the second one is Google. Do the big companies you work for not have people interview with employees in their particular role? It seems relatively common among my friends for them to be interviewing people just 1-2 years younger than them, either for internships or to fill the position they're about to be promoted out of.

A startup isn't a massive company and Google is notoriously atypical with transparency and inclusiveness with hiring. Even so, just conducting an interview is far from learning about the thought process behind the actual act of hiring.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#79

Post by nostrademons »

maaku wrote: post #77
nostrademons wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? That argument assumes that school is worthwhile in the first place. If you assume your conclusion, it seems an awful lot like begging the question. If you don't go to school, live your life, and find out everything is just hunky-dory without it - what exactly have you missed out on? Maybe you were right in the first place, and can congratulate yourself on making wise decisions that turned out to be vindicated…

The OP said he has thought about going back multiple times. Obviously it has some value to him.

...and then decided against it every time, so obviously it has less value to him than other things he could be doing with his life.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#80

Post by maaku »

nostrademons wrote: post #79
maaku wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP said he has thought about going back multiple times. Obviously it has some value to him.

...and then decided against it every time, so obviously it has less value to him than other things he could be doing with his life.

...a life which is much, much more complicated after leaving school, serving in the military, having a career, starting a family, etc. If school has any value to you at all, the utility of finishing school vs dropping out is higher earlier in life than later. Maybe for some people it makes sense to drop out (Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg being canonical examples). But for most people the decision isn't so clear-cut, and going back becomes tremendously more difficult as time goes by.
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