Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up • Hacker News Board

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#31

Post by maaku » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:54 PM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #9

boon wrote: post #2

If Peter Thiel calls you, it might make sense to at least hear him out. Slamming doors is rarely a good approach to life. And school will always be there to go back to.

I don't think it's really worth going back to school. I dropped out to join the military. (Later left that too) 10 years later, every time I think about going back I think, "why?". I've already got a job, and I make decent money. I'd learn much more, faster, by taking on more responsibilities here than I would in some sandbox environment. Unless I went to, like, Harvard or something.

... which is actually an argument for staying in school in the first place. Once you're out, the realities of life make it very difficult to go back.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#32

Post by chasing » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:54 PM UTC

ebiester wrote: post #7

...Says the man who went to school when the opportunity cost wasn't a decade in debt (at the very least). If you succeed, then you didn't need school. If you fail, then you can always go back to school afterwards. I don't see the downside of the Thiel fellowship, at least on its surface.

Hi! Five years as an undergrad! No debt!

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#33

Post by szany » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:59 PM UTC

This is good advice, because the right sort of person to be a Thiel fellow would read this and scoff anyway.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#34

Post by tptacek » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 7:01 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #30

tptacek wrote: post #21

There's a valid point in here about the way the structure of the Thiel program, with its strain of radical individualism, might blind new entrepreneurs to the idea that most of them shouldn't be CEOs. I think more entrepreneurs should try to grok this idea. Even people who are "born leaders" don't necessarily belong in the CEO role, because CEOs need to be more than leaders. They often also need to be moderating infl…

Yes, this would be a really good article if it made a completely different point.

If I'm mistaken, and it's not trying to make the "CEO argument" I was playing with upthread, you could correct my mistake using evidence. I read the article and I don't think I'm mistaken, but would love to be surprised.

Otherwise, I'm not sure of the point of your comment.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#35

Post by enraged_camel » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 7:04 PM UTC

jmduke wrote: post #28

ebiester wrote: post #7

...Says the man who went to school when the opportunity cost wasn't a decade in debt (at the very least). If you succeed, then you didn't need school. If you fail, then you can always go back to school afterwards. I don't see the downside of the Thiel fellowship, at least on its surface.

...Says the man who went to school when the opportunity cost wasn't a decade in debt (at the very least). I got a great college education and graduated with a level of debt that I paid off in less than a year, through a mix of need-based grants, merit-based scholarships, working 15 hrs/wk, and a lower overall tuition because it was a public school. (There's also the growing trend of 2&2 programs, which in retrospect…

Perhaps it has not occurred to you that you were an outlier who was able to qualify for grants and scholarships and also had a (presumably decent-paying) part-time job. Not to mention living in a state with a decent school for your degree of choice.

But, I mean, let's get real. Take a good public school like University of Washington. 4-year tuition comes to $160,000 - if you life with parents [1]. Are you telling me that this is not a crippling amount of debt for a lot of people?

[1]http://admit.washington.edu/Paying/Cost#freshmen-transfer

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#36

Post by enraged_camel » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 7:05 PM UTC

jeffasinger wrote: post #18

ebiester wrote: post #7

...Says the man who went to school when the opportunity cost wasn't a decade in debt (at the very least). If you succeed, then you didn't need school. If you fail, then you can always go back to school afterwards. I don't see the downside of the Thiel fellowship, at least on its surface.

There are plenty of school options that involve much lower debt than that. You don't need to go to a school that costs $50k a year, there are plenty of alternatives.

There are plenty of alternatives, but do they provide the same quality of education for your degree of choice?

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#37

Post by vinceguidry » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 7:09 PM UTC

maaku wrote: post #31

vinceguidry wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really worth going back to school. I dropped out to join the military. (Later left that too) 10 years later, every time I think about going back I think, "why?". I've already got a job, and I make decent money. I'd learn much more, faster, by taking on more responsibilities here than I would in some sandbox environment. Unless I went to, like, Harvard or something.

... which is actually an argument for staying in school in the first place. Once you're out, the realities of life make it very difficult to go back.

I dropped out because I didn't feel I was learning enough to justify the expense. I can educate myself on my own time. I'd make the same decision today, only I'd be more certain about it, what with skyrocketing tuition costs and all.

Of course, not everyone's like me. But for people in the same socio-economic position I was in back then, I don't think college offers the solid pathway to middle class comfort everyone seems to think it does. You might get lucky, you might also get saddled with a $30+K piece of paper and no marketable skills, in which case you'd have been no better off working as a waiter/tress or whatever and working towards something better on your own terms.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#38

Post by saryant » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 7:12 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #35

jmduke wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...Says the man who went to school when the opportunity cost wasn't a decade in debt (at the very least). I got a great college education and graduated with a level of debt that I paid off in less than a year, through a mix of need-based grants, merit-based scholarships, working 15 hrs/wk, and a lower overall tuition because it was a public school. (There's also the growing trend of 2&2 programs, which in retrospect…

Perhaps it has not occurred to you that you were an outlier who was able to qualify for grants and scholarships and also had a (presumably decent-paying) part-time job. Not to mention living in a state with a decent school for your degree of choice. But, I mean, let's get real. Take a good public school like University of Washington. 4-year tuition comes to $160,000 - if you life with parents [1]. Are you telling me…

That's for non-residents. At least look at the in-state number which is less than half the one you quoted.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#39

Post by enraged_camel » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 7:15 PM UTC

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #27

I appreciate the article and the point of view but I have to disagree completely with his recommendation that you spend your years working for someone else before you launch your own business. He talks about working for a company after finishing college to learn about how they operate and do business. You know what I learned in the five years after college I worked for a company as a dev? A whole lot about software d…

I'm the exact opposite. I started in a tech support role and learned the value of proper customer service, then transferred to a sales engineering role and learned how to analyze a customer's needs and match them with the correct product offering. From a management side, just by looking at how my company is managed, I learned how not to manage a company. Every time a coworker got treated like crap, I told myself I would never treat my employees like that when I have my own company.

What would have happened if I had started a business straight out of college? Presumably, I'd have made a whole bunch of dumb mistakes, some of which could have cost me the business. I would have failed a bunch of times and learned things the hard way. Most importantly, I might have become demotivated and given up entirely. Which is actually what happens to most people.

I'd say that the past five years I've worked for a company (my first one out of college) have allowed me to find myself in terms of confidence, skills and purpose. I feel like I'm a much better, much more stable place for starting something on my own.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#40

Post by Fomite » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 7:17 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #36

jeffasinger wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of school options that involve much lower debt than that. You don't need to go to a school that costs $50k a year, there are plenty of alternatives.

There are plenty of alternatives, but do they provide the same quality of education for your degree of choice?

With very, very rare exceptions, yes. Most flagship state schools will give you an excellent education at a much, much better value.