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ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

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Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#41

Post by bayesianhorse »

linuxhansl wrote: post #24

Good. Medicine in the form of antibiotics and inoculations against various dangerous diseases has brought us far, but it seems to be time to rethink some of the recent developments. Maybe we can stop growing a monoculture of humans where the slightest deviation from the norm must be treated with some kind of drug. I am from Europe (but live in the US) and I salute the folks there resisting this nonsense. (And for the…

Denying the existence of mental disorders is dangerous and harmful to those who indeed have these disorders.

And they are disorders. The science on this is very strong. You see "clusters" of similar conditions in millions of human beings, where each of these clusters/diseases have similar problems, and they share potential remedies.

The problems these disorders cause the individual are very real and unmistakeably negative. Sometimes this is muddied by people claiming schizophrenia, ADHD and bipolar disorder have "hidden benefits", especially creativity. Sometimes conspiracy nuts equate mental disorders with some kind of "dissident" behavior that has to be censors. It's not. These people suffer, and it's not only society that makes them suffer, but also their brain biology...

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#42

Post by anigbrowl »

jasonlotito wrote: post #3
chimeracoder wrote: post #2

I posted this in a HN thread about therapeutic uses of nicotine a week ago, but it's even more relevant here: > A friend of mine is a psychiatrist who specializes in treating ADHD. She told me about a conference she went to recently, where someone presented an interesting paper. > Apparently, there was an amazing study done relatively recently (last five years), in which they demonstrated that, in mice, exposure to n…

Of note: Adderall is by far not the only drug available for ADHD, and considering its addictive nature, should not be the first on you try.

It isn't addictive for everyone; a good thing for me insofar as having my supply stolen by people who are addicted or want to resell it causes me only financial rather than chemical distress.

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#43

Post by lfuller »

badclient wrote: post #38
lfuller wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd recommend that you talk to a few people with ADHD and see if they consider their disorder to be "the slightest deviation from the norm". It's clear from this article that doctors certainly don't see it that way.

And I'd recommend you visit the overflowing offices of a few shrinks scamming patients by charging $100-$150 for five minute appointments to provide the monthly refill for adderall.

I don't think that anecdotes, personal beliefs, or unqualified claims are the right way to approach something like this, especially if you don't have any personal or professional experience with the disorder.

Any disorder or disease that requires a potentially addictive medication will inevitably have crooked doctors - this is seen as well with patients requiring Morphine or Codeine. This crookedness is a separate issue from the illness, and is not relevant in a discussion about neurobiology.

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#44

Post by voxgen »

badclient wrote: post #38
lfuller wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd recommend that you talk to a few people with ADHD and see if they consider their disorder to be "the slightest deviation from the norm". It's clear from this article that doctors certainly don't see it that way.

And I'd recommend you visit the overflowing offices of a few shrinks scamming patients by charging $100-$150 for five minute appointments to provide the monthly refill for adderall.

That's a symptom of bad healthcare systems.

In the UK, I didn't have to pay anything for refills of concerta. In NZ, I only had to pay the GP who gave me a referral to a free psychiatrist for methylphenidate and dexamphetamine sulphate.

In both places, it has been a relatively long journey to get medication. They were keen to try to resolve my issues without drugs - it was about half a year between when I started seeing a psychiatrist and when they suggested medication.

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#45

Post by DSMan195276 »

lfuller wrote: post #35
linuxhansl wrote: post #24

Good. Medicine in the form of antibiotics and inoculations against various dangerous diseases has brought us far, but it seems to be time to rethink some of the recent developments. Maybe we can stop growing a monoculture of humans where the slightest deviation from the norm must be treated with some kind of drug. I am from Europe (but live in the US) and I salute the folks there resisting this nonsense. (And for the…

I'd recommend that you talk to a few people with ADHD and see if they consider their disorder to be "the slightest deviation from the norm". It's clear from this article that doctors certainly don't see it that way.

As an adult with ADHD, I can agree. It's definitely real, and it's definitely not just something that can be easily ignored without proper education about it (And without proper medication if necessary).

Personally, I was lucky, as I was diagnosed as a younger age (Around 5th grade or 6th grade). Recently I took a college course on handling ADHD in college, and my professor also had ADHD, having had it for many years, struggling with it, and not ever learning about it until she was around 50 years-old.

I agree with those who say it may be over-diagnosed, but at the same time, it's frustrating to see people who have no understanding of the disease at all tell me that it's all in my head and I should just get over it and act like everyone else. Being a bit older, I've learned to simply shake it off and move on, but it tough being a kid struggling to do stuff that others seem to be able to accomplish no problem, and then be told that you're simply not trying hard enough and never get any access to education on ADHD and/or medication. It's no different then going up to someone with depression and telling them it's all in their head and to just stop it. It simply doesn't work that way, and pretending it does only makes those with the disease feel worse about themselves without helping them.

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#46

Post by PixelPusher »

anigbrowl wrote: post #39
linuxhansl wrote: post #24

Good. Medicine in the form of antibiotics and inoculations against various dangerous diseases has brought us far, but it seems to be time to rethink some of the recent developments. Maybe we can stop growing a monoculture of humans where the slightest deviation from the norm must be treated with some kind of drug. I am from Europe (but live in the US) and I salute the folks there resisting this nonsense. (And for the…

thanks to uninformed attitudes like yours, I was unable to get any treatment for my ADHD for years while living in Europe. Instead I was told that I was stressed because I was depressed, and depressed because I was stressed, and made to feel like it was my fault for not being easily treatable. Maybe we can stop growing a monoculture of humans where the slightest deviation from the norm must be treated with some kind…

Go anywhere outside of the US and Europe and they would laugh at you. Our culture (hispanic) takes it as a sign of weakness and petty complaints. Most people are too worried trying to feed themselves or their families to even think about being depressed. Furthermore, with the little money they have they tend to go to doctors for diseases that directly affect their bodies or ability to earn.

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#47

Post by Daniel_Newby »

linuxhansl wrote: post #24

Good. Medicine in the form of antibiotics and inoculations against various dangerous diseases has brought us far, but it seems to be time to rethink some of the recent developments. Maybe we can stop growing a monoculture of humans where the slightest deviation from the norm must be treated with some kind of drug. I am from Europe (but live in the US) and I salute the folks there resisting this nonsense. (And for the…

The "slightest deviation" hypothesis has been conclusively disproven. ADHD positive by American standards correlates with -10 IQ points, double the rate of serious injuries, much lower age of first pregnancy and much higher rates of promiscuity, dramatically lower rates of high school (secondary school) graduation, almost total inability to complete a university degree, amd very high rates of criminal conviction (at least half of prisoners are ADHD positive).

The American ADHD criteria are hard science, derived by looking at a syndrome of social failure and back-calculating diagnostic criteria.

The European approach, in contrast, is based on Freudian dogma. I.e., weapons grade malarkey.

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#48

Post by linuxhansl »

anigbrowl wrote: post #39
linuxhansl wrote: post #24

Good. Medicine in the form of antibiotics and inoculations against various dangerous diseases has brought us far, but it seems to be time to rethink some of the recent developments. Maybe we can stop growing a monoculture of humans where the slightest deviation from the norm must be treated with some kind of drug. I am from Europe (but live in the US) and I salute the folks there resisting this nonsense. (And for the…

thanks to uninformed attitudes like yours, I was unable to get any treatment for my ADHD for years while living in Europe. Instead I was told that I was stressed because I was depressed, and depressed because I was stressed, and made to feel like it was my fault for not being easily treatable. Maybe we can stop growing a monoculture of humans where the slightest deviation from the norm must be treated with some kind…

Yes, yes, and vaccines are a pharmaceutical industry plot, and all the rest.

I have neither said nor implied this anywhere.

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#49

Post by com2kid »

wpietri wrote: post #28
saosebastiao wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not "drug it out of them"? If the disease is caused by a chemical imbalance, why not try to fix the chemical imbalance? Some people (myself included) are not functional without medication.

Personally, I'm pretty skeptical that most of the people diagnosed with it have a disease. I think it's a perfectly normal human variation that just doesn't match well with our Industrial Age approach to education. The way I think of it is like height. There's a normal range of tall and short. There are also diseases that make people unusually tall or short. But mere shortness doesn't prove disease. And just because…

People with ADHD have reduced brain growth in areas associated with executive control.

ADHD is very real. So is the 50%+ of untreated people with ADHD having substance abuse problems. So is the higher suicide rate. So is the reduced rate of high school and college graduation. So are the dramatically increased rates of depression. Then there is the incredibly high rate of co-morbidity of ADHD with other psychological disorders, most prominently Bipolar Disorder.

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#50

Post by uniclaude »

anigbrowl wrote: post #39
linuxhansl wrote: post #24

Good. Medicine in the form of antibiotics and inoculations against various dangerous diseases has brought us far, but it seems to be time to rethink some of the recent developments. Maybe we can stop growing a monoculture of humans where the slightest deviation from the norm must be treated with some kind of drug. I am from Europe (but live in the US) and I salute the folks there resisting this nonsense. (And for the…

thanks to uninformed attitudes like yours, I was unable to get any treatment for my ADHD for years while living in Europe. Instead I was told that I was stressed because I was depressed, and depressed because I was stressed, and made to feel like it was my fault for not being easily treatable. Maybe we can stop growing a monoculture of humans where the slightest deviation from the norm must be treated with some kind…

What you should think about is that for one person like yours that stays untreated with your ADHD, in the US there might be a lot of kids forced to undergo treatments for what is no real ADHD. I grew up in Europe, and I seriously think that I would have spent my life under a very high amount of drugs if I had been raised in the US.

I'm very glad I didn't have to go through this, because in Europe it is much more difficult to be recognized as someone having ADHD.

So I'm sorry for you to have suffered, but I can't say I'm not happy I didn't.

All of this said, I no I have no data to back this up, it's just a gut feeling.

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