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Everybody Let's Stop the TPP: Share These Videos and Spread the Word

eff.org

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Re: Everybody Let's Stop the TPP: Share These Videos and Spread the Word

#11

Post by seanica »

AmiiJewels wrote: post #6

There seems to be a lot of scare mongering in that video which doesn't help put the point across.."franken-foods"...really? GM foods are and will continue to be a great leap forward in sustainable, scalable agriculture. I still have no idea what the "TPP" thing is...when I look at the other sources I just get things like "you will be banned from being able to modify the save file on your game"...huh really? What if I…

The Wikileaks Party does a good job of summarizing some of the agenda.

http://www.wikileaksparty.org.au/why-australians-should-be-w...

Re: Everybody Let's Stop the TPP: Share These Videos and Spread the Word

#13

Post by tbrake »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #10
chrischen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with "franken-foods" is, I'm guessing, that brands will not have to label if a food has GMO in it. I thought the US already doesn't require this? Basically, it's some sort of anti-consumer deal (presumably, because consumers have no input in it). Improperly labelled food would impede consumer choice (and thus voting with your purse). Given how popular the organic movement is, labeling food as containing GMO…

And they shouldn't be required to do so. Most foods today are GM in one way or another. It will just become a sign for consumers to stay away from those products when there's really no good reason to do so.

Maybe they disagree with GM business practices and don't want to buy them. Is such information available from the stores? On the packaging? At a kiosk somewhere? Where?

It's the flipside of the oft proposed "let them vote with their dollars" solution that's not often discussed: in order to make informed decisions people need (easy, plain language) access to honest, total information. If the problem of information is solved today in a non-utopian free-market, the move to one becomes less dangerous. If we shift to one from the information desert of today the consumer is just screwed for eternity.

That is, it's one problem of many with that solution; the hardest, as I see it, is proving that such a thing as a rational, informed consumer is not a myth.

Re: Everybody Let's Stop the TPP: Share These Videos and Spread the Word

#14

Post by MikeCapone »

majke wrote: post #9
camus wrote: post #2

USA and Europe will have the same kind of "agreement",it's called something like the trans atlantic partnership => bad for EU workers and bad for USA workers , especially since nobody asked us ( Europeans ) if we agreed on this or not. It will only be good for big corps and banks. And nobody's talking about it.

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand why this kind of agreement is necessarily "bad for EU workers and bad for USA workers"? Can you explain?

While there can be good and bad things in a new deal, we also have to look at what we have now. Tariffs reducing trade to shield groups with political clout from competition aren't exactly a good thing...

Re: Everybody Let's Stop the TPP: Share These Videos and Spread the Word

#15

Post by patmcguire »

camus wrote: post #2

USA and Europe will have the same kind of "agreement",it's called something like the trans atlantic partnership => bad for EU workers and bad for USA workers , especially since nobody asked us ( Europeans ) if we agreed on this or not. It will only be good for big corps and banks. And nobody's talking about it.

Oh, I was confused for a while. You're talking about this one, no? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Free_Trade_Area

Re: Everybody Let's Stop the TPP: Share These Videos and Spread the Word

#16

Post by patmcguire »

seanica wrote: post #11
AmiiJewels wrote: post #6

There seems to be a lot of scare mongering in that video which doesn't help put the point across.."franken-foods"...really? GM foods are and will continue to be a great leap forward in sustainable, scalable agriculture. I still have no idea what the "TPP" thing is...when I look at the other sources I just get things like "you will be banned from being able to modify the save file on your game"...huh really? What if I…

The Wikileaks Party does a good job of summarizing some of the agenda. http://www.wikileaksparty.org.au/why-australians-should-be-w...

'Under the TPP, if a company believes an Australian law endangers its “expected future profits,” it can challenge the government at an investor-state tribunal. This tribunal has the power to overrule Australian laws and levy fines against the Australian state.'

If true that's nuts. Even the WTO only lets you do tit-for-tat.

Re: Everybody Let's Stop the TPP: Share These Videos and Spread the Word

#18

Post by snowwrestler »

ferdo wrote: post #7
bzmwillemsen wrote: post #3

Where are the facts in this video? it's all chorus.

It's hard to know the facts because much of the TPP negotiations and data are being kept secret: "Lack of transparency: The entire process has shut out multi-stakeholder participation and is shrouded in secrecy." - https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp

The TPP is a multilateral trade agreement, all of which are negotiated in private by national representatives, then presented to their respective national governments for ratification. In the U.S. the TPP will require Congressional approval, which will be a very public and long process.

Basically: the stuff about "secrecy" is pure scaremongering. There's nothing special about the way TPP is being out together.

Re: Everybody Let's Stop the TPP: Share These Videos and Spread the Word

#19

Post by bpodgursky »

tbrake wrote: post #13
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they shouldn't be required to do so. Most foods today are GM in one way or another. It will just become a sign for consumers to stay away from those products when there's really no good reason to do so.

Maybe they disagree with GM business practices and don't want to buy them. Is such information available from the stores? On the packaging? At a kiosk somewhere? Where? It's the flipside of the oft proposed "let them vote with their dollars" solution that's not often discussed: in order to make informed decisions people need (easy, plain language) access to honest, total information. If the problem of information is…

Total information is not the same as informative labeling. Companies are not allowed to label the absence of irrelevant things for good reason--when a food is labeled as "X-free", X should in some way be something worth avoiding for some people (if you want a trans-fat-free / carb-free / gluten-free diet, etc.) This is what consumers expect when they see a label advertising the absence of something--that it is worth avoiding.

If you are allowed to put completely irrelevant or misleading labels, companies could "distinguish" their brands with other nonsense:

"Biotin free!" "No added Niacin!" "No synthetic Pyridoxine!"

Does any consumer realize that these are in fact not things you should be avoiding? Of course not, and they shouldn't have to. So if you start letting companies label food as GMO free, most people will be misled because they expect the labeling to be because of a scientific reason the food is worth avoiding--when there is of course absolutely no scientific basis to fear GMO foods.

Re: Everybody Let's Stop the TPP: Share These Videos and Spread the Word

#20

Post by tbrake »

bpodgursky wrote: post #19
tbrake wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they disagree with GM business practices and don't want to buy them. Is such information available from the stores? On the packaging? At a kiosk somewhere? Where? It's the flipside of the oft proposed "let them vote with their dollars" solution that's not often discussed: in order to make informed decisions people need (easy, plain language) access to honest, total information. If the problem of information is…

Total information is not the same as informative labeling. Companies are not allowed to label the absence of irrelevant things for good reason--when a food is labeled as "X-free", X should in some way be something worth avoiding for some people (if you want a trans-fat-free / carb-free / gluten-free diet, etc.) This is what consumers expect when they see a label advertising the absence of something--that it is worth…

It was more a meta comment about (the myth of) informed consumers than it was an attack/call to action on GMO foods or food labeling ((spoiler alert: I like GMO foods)).

In fact, I explicitly made mention of an alternate reason for wanting to avoid GM foods is because I find their business(IP) practices vile. That's one of the textbook examples of "voting with your dollar" - don't like the way a company does business? Don't buy them.

If people want to know how their food was produced and who was involved I think they should have the ability to get that information, certainly much easier than they can today, so that they can exercise choice.

It doesn't mean that they have to follow "x-free" labeling to get it. A footnote or adjoining placard of "this fruit produced with seeds licensed from Monsanto" would do just fine.

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