The iPhone is White Label Hardware • Hacker News Board

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#41

Post by jm4 » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 8:02 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #33

jm4 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because it's possible on competing smartphones? I was curious about the new features in IPhone OS 3 and decided to take a look at the list. Copy and paste? MMS? Voice memos? Search? You've got to be kidding me. The competition has had that stuff for ages. If Apple couldn't deliver that stuff on day one that's fine, but it should have been released in an update shortly afterward. It's absurd that 2 years later p…

> The competition has had that stuff for ages. Then by the performance of the competition, we have to surmise that either users don't care about said features, or said features have such flawed execution that the majority of its target users simply choose not to use it. I would lean to the latter. Sending MMSes on most phones is a pain , recording a voice memo less so, but still convoluted. Search? Oh boy, yeah, some…

Then by the performance of the competition, we have to surmise that either users don't care about said features, or said features have such flawed execution that the majority of its target users simply choose not to use it.

That's a strong statement that I can't agree with completely. We can probably agree that most users don't care about most features other than dialing. When I asked why scrolling through a contact list on a Motorola RAZR is so slow the response I got is that most users don't use the contact list.

If most people don't use most of the features of their phones that's fine. But I do, and giving me a prettier package isn't going to change the fact that it doesn't have the features I'm already using. Apple is clearly more interested in less demanding users and have made a boatload of money that way. That's fine too.

But if you want to talk smartphones for power users, I think the iPhone has been missing some important features. In other areas, they've clearly surpassed the competition. This is a good thing for everyone. Even though I don't use an iPhone I've got a much better browser on my phone because of it.

Personally, there's no way I'm buying a smartphone that doesn't do MMS or copy/paste when there are others that do this in addition to just about everything else the iPhone can do. But I put a premium on features instead of user interface and it's not as if the worthwhile competitors' user interfaces are from the stone age.

The competition hasn't exactly been left destitute since the release of the iPhone either. If anything, their product line ups have only gotten stronger even if market share has decreased. Sure, Nokia is in the toilet, but I think it probably has more to do with the fact that they've more or less been sitting on their asses for a few years than the iPhone. I won't even bring up Windows Mobile because it's just sad. Blackberry, excluding the Storm, is looking better and better. Despite the fact that the design and build quality of the T-Mobile G1 is a cruel joke, Android is something worth getting excited about. If someone puts it on nice hardware we could end up with a very cool phone.

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#42

Post by upinsmoke » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 8:07 PM UTC

jmtulloss wrote: post #5

Apple's hardware isn't appropriate for every situation. If it were to be white label, they would need to make the software available to other hardware developers, and that's never going to happen. This article is more about software than hardware, the apps largely don't care what hardware it's running on.

Your sentence doesn't make any sense, you start with "Apple's hardware" then you talk about "make the software available to other hardware developers". Do you mean hardware accessories for iPhone? It's in 3.0.

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#43

Post by sker » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 8:13 PM UTC

mcantor wrote: post #14

dbreunig wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. I agree with you: the G1 (and G2!) is a very capable device. As Android is adopted by more and more device manufacturers, Android could very well become a ubiquitous, ambient computing environment. The reason I focus on the iPhone is for two reasons. First off: it's hardware. No matter how good the G1 is, the crux of the phone is it's OS. That's the standard being pushed in that case. With the iPhone, th…

I think I see what you were getting at now, about the market penetration. I still don't really understand your point about hardware vs. software. The G-1 and iPhone are both pieces of hardware with pre-packaged software on them. Is there really anything the iPhone's hardware is capable of that the G-1 isn't, in some profound way? They both have wi-fi, GPS, accelerometer, calculator, touch screen, etc. The iPhone real…

People get so excited about Apple that and Apple this, that functional alternatives like the G-1 and Blackberry go unnoticed

They don't go unnoticed. It's only in geek-apple-loving communities like HN where they make it seem like the iPhone is the only viable choice for a joyful mobile experience.

Out there, normal people are buying other phones and are happy with them. Last time I checked Blackberry was still outselling the iPhone. http://www.phonemag.com/blackberrys-dominate-top-five-us-sma...

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#44

Post by GHFigs » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 8:39 PM UTC

mcantor wrote: post #39

GHFigs wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has a monopoly on branding expertise Could you explain this?

I just meant that there's no one out there who can inspire consumers to brand loyalty and excitement as deftly as Apple can.

There is no monopoly on deftness.

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#45

Post by GHFigs » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 8:52 PM UTC

gchucky wrote: post #34

GHFigs wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in the end, the market suffers because consumers are complacent I believe you're projecting your own preferences here. Unless you have evidence to suggest that the average iPhone owner is not happy with his purchase, saying "the market suffers" is a bit much.

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that the market suffers because of a lack of competition - and I tend to agree with that. And as a side note, this article seems to sort of be leading towards that sentiment: "there’s very little reason for start-ups to even attempt to pursue the wonky world of hardware."

He's saying that the market suffers because of a lack of competition

Huh? What lack of competition? The post is about the competition.

this article seems to sort of be leading towards that sentiment

He's referring to stand-alone devices, not other smartphones.

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#46

Post by GHFigs » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 8:56 PM UTC

jm4 wrote: post #41

potatolicious wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The competition has had that stuff for ages. Then by the performance of the competition, we have to surmise that either users don't care about said features, or said features have such flawed execution that the majority of its target users simply choose not to use it. I would lean to the latter. Sending MMSes on most phones is a pain , recording a voice memo less so, but still convoluted. Search? Oh boy, yeah, some…

Then by the performance of the competition, we have to surmise that either users don't care about said features, or said features have such flawed execution that the majority of its target users simply choose not to use it. That's a strong statement that I can't agree with completely. We can probably agree that most users don't care about most features other than dialing. When I asked why scrolling through a contact…

power users

I am perpetually at a loss for what this term means. On the one hand you're describing these features as "basic" but on the other they're for "power users". Is that not a contradiction?

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#47

Post by potatolicious » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 9:03 PM UTC

jm4 wrote: post #41

potatolicious wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The competition has had that stuff for ages. Then by the performance of the competition, we have to surmise that either users don't care about said features, or said features have such flawed execution that the majority of its target users simply choose not to use it. I would lean to the latter. Sending MMSes on most phones is a pain , recording a voice memo less so, but still convoluted. Search? Oh boy, yeah, some…

Then by the performance of the competition, we have to surmise that either users don't care about said features, or said features have such flawed execution that the majority of its target users simply choose not to use it. That's a strong statement that I can't agree with completely. We can probably agree that most users don't care about most features other than dialing. When I asked why scrolling through a contact…

There's a chicken and egg situation when it comes to features like MMS, copy/paste, and search - the number of users is directly correlated with its usability and discoverability. Sure, there is a demographic that will never use the feature in any case, but IMHO the fact that many phones have these features but are barely used is more a testament to the difficult UI than the notion that some people just don't want it.

I agree that Apple has sparked a renaissance of sorts in the cell industry - a do or die if you will. This is good for everyone - BlackBerry is getting better every day, Nokia is woefully behind, MS is still twiddling their thumbs, and everyone else is basically a non-player (including Android, for the time being anyway).

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#48

Post by jsz0 » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 9:38 PM UTC

jm4 wrote: post #20

jodrellblank wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a let down? For two years, two releases, two versions of software and one beta of OS 3 it hasn't been present. It's only ever been mentioned by Apple to say they aren't doing it, and always they've been discussing, advertising and working on push notifications as an alternative. Given all that, why were you in any way expecting it?

Maybe because it's possible on competing smartphones? I was curious about the new features in IPhone OS 3 and decided to take a look at the list. Copy and paste? MMS? Voice memos? Search? You've got to be kidding me. The competition has had that stuff for ages. If Apple couldn't deliver that stuff on day one that's fine, but it should have been released in an update shortly afterward. It's absurd that 2 years later p…

"The competition has had that stuff for ages."

That's true but let's look at what the competition to the iPhone was mostly lacking:

-Fully functional modern web browser -Good GUIs (some exceptions) -High quality screen with good visual design and font rendering -Intuitive multi-touch interface -Good integration for media syncing/playback -A lot of pre-iPhone SmartPhones (RIM specifically) didn't even have 802.11 wifi -Good attachment viewer (All Office formats including 2k7)

As of 1 year ago: -Full Exchange support -VPN support -Excellent SDK with a fully integrated distribution system and free development tools.

So while your point is valid that it did take Apple about 2 years to fully build iPhone OS into a mature OS I would say it's also absurd that other SmartPhone platforms were so far behind in the above areas. It works both ways doesn't it? I would never buy a phone without a fully functional modern web browser again. I don't care if it has the best copy & paste and voice memos ever. It's all about what features a large variety of people find the most important. Users did purchase their phones fully knowing they did not have copy & paste, MMS, voice memos, etc.

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#49

Post by dbreunig » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 9:53 PM UTC

jm4 wrote: post #41

potatolicious wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The competition has had that stuff for ages. Then by the performance of the competition, we have to surmise that either users don't care about said features, or said features have such flawed execution that the majority of its target users simply choose not to use it. I would lean to the latter. Sending MMSes on most phones is a pain , recording a voice memo less so, but still convoluted. Search? Oh boy, yeah, some…

Then by the performance of the competition, we have to surmise that either users don't care about said features, or said features have such flawed execution that the majority of its target users simply choose not to use it. That's a strong statement that I can't agree with completely. We can probably agree that most users don't care about most features other than dialing. When I asked why scrolling through a contact…

Really? You're deciding on a phone based on MMS and copy/paste? That seems like such a small (and overweighted slice of the pie...)

My favorite case of this feverish feature list fetishizing is Nokia, whom never fails to deliver amazing phones with every feature imaginable, all of which are so badly hindered by a dated, clunky OS that renders most of them useless.

Last time I used an N95 it took me 7 clicks from the map screen (and four sub-menus!) to get the phone to find me on the map. Sure, GPS was available before Apple got there; but could most people use it?

Re: The iPhone is White Label Hardware

#50

Post by jmtulloss » Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 9:53 PM UTC

upinsmoke wrote: post #42

jmtulloss wrote: post #5

Apple's hardware isn't appropriate for every situation. If it were to be white label, they would need to make the software available to other hardware developers, and that's never going to happen. This article is more about software than hardware, the apps largely don't care what hardware it's running on.

Your sentence doesn't make any sense, you start with "Apple's hardware" then you talk about "make the software available to other hardware developers". Do you mean hardware accessories for iPhone? It's in 3.0.

What? No. I mean they would need to make the software (iPhone OS 3.0) available to 3rd party hardware developers in order to have a "white label" platform.