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Melatonin

gwern.net

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Re: Melatonin

#161

Post by patrickdavey »

I had been taking concentrated cherry juice which is high in natural meltonin.. made no discernible difference to me.. so I will try to see if melatonin tablets are available here (in New Zealand) and give it a go.

One thing I would love to know is (I may have missed it in the article) is whether melatonin supplements help with staying asleep. I fall asleep just fine (10-15 minutes, often earlier) but it's when my brain gets into a routine of waking up at 3 or 4 am that I find particularly hard to deal with. I've simply not worked out strategies around it yet.

Re: Melatonin

#162

Post by codezero »

allsystemsgo wrote: post #99
jobu wrote: post #98

My youngest daughter is borderline ADHD, and rather than trying Ritalin we've been using Melatonin in the evenings to help ease the bedtime process. (In the hopes that more sleep will help her cope with problems focusing.) The change has been dramatic. Previously it was a 3-4 hour battle each night for her to get ready for bed and stay in bed. Now with 3mg of Melatonin she spontaneously decides to get ready for bed h…

I too have ADHD. I was diagnosed with it nearly 10 years ago now. I'm not hyperactive or anything like that. I do tend to bounce from one thing to the next sometimes, and this can be problematic around bedtime. Not only that but I take medication to treat my ADHD. This medication is a pretty low dose, but sometimes it's still going strong at 8 or 9pm, which is not good for sleep. Melatonin has helped A LOT. I take be…

You may also consider trying different medications. Ritalin/Concerta types have always had weird effects on my sleep, but the Adderall/Adderall XR ones have always been neutral/helpful when it comes to sleep.

Re: Melatonin

#164

Post by nargella »

I have had issues with going to sleep my whole life (nap time in preschool I was last to fall asleep and last to wake up). First I have to say I took 3mg as a test run and it did nothing. My gf then said they give 10-15mg for patients at the hospital.

9mg was too effective at putting me out in 30 min (I weigh 200lbs). It was too difficult to wake up in the morning. 6mg seems best. My minds eye feels like it's wearing a sleeping mask because dreams are few and far between.

When I stopped taking it, dreams became vivid and memorable. I also took ZMA before and that does nothing in terms of getting to sleep, but you get some crazy strong dreams while on it.

Re: Melatonin

#165

Post by cpeterso »

allsystemsgo wrote: post #99
jobu wrote: post #98

My youngest daughter is borderline ADHD, and rather than trying Ritalin we've been using Melatonin in the evenings to help ease the bedtime process. (In the hopes that more sleep will help her cope with problems focusing.) The change has been dramatic. Previously it was a 3-4 hour battle each night for her to get ready for bed and stay in bed. Now with 3mg of Melatonin she spontaneously decides to get ready for bed h…

I too have ADHD. I was diagnosed with it nearly 10 years ago now. I'm not hyperactive or anything like that. I do tend to bounce from one thing to the next sometimes, and this can be problematic around bedtime. Not only that but I take medication to treat my ADHD. This medication is a pretty low dose, but sometimes it's still going strong at 8 or 9pm, which is not good for sleep. Melatonin has helped A LOT. I take be…

Have you been able to reduce your ADHD meds after taking melatonin (or getting better sleep from melatonin)?

Re: Melatonin

#166

Post by AmadKamali »

jobu wrote: post #98

My youngest daughter is borderline ADHD, and rather than trying Ritalin we've been using Melatonin in the evenings to help ease the bedtime process. (In the hopes that more sleep will help her cope with problems focusing.) The change has been dramatic. Previously it was a 3-4 hour battle each night for her to get ready for bed and stay in bed. Now with 3mg of Melatonin she spontaneously decides to get ready for bed h…

>The most interesting thing about Melatonin isn't that it makes you drowsy or helps you sleep, it's that it increases the _desire_ for sleep.

Exactly! After having tried almost all Hypnotics/Sedatives for a sleep disorder that has lasted better part of a decade, it was so refreshing to find something that:

Doesn't have any hangover,

Doesn't make you feel more crappy if you are unable to go to sleep after taking it. The headache/light-headedness that follows if you don't sleep after taking other sedatives/hypnotics is generally very annoying and sometimes even unbearable.

The quality of sleep is much better too. No nightmares as such. More dreaming, yes, but that may be just because of better sleep quality.

Re: Melatonin

#167

Post by AJ007 »

ChristianMarks wrote: post #114

Gwern comes close to suggesting filtering blue light, but I will repeat a previous post. I've tried melatonin, but it is no substitute for for filtering blue light in my experience, and it tends to induce horrific, apocalyptic nightmares (granted, a night dreaming of EAS Emergency Action Notifications is better than no sleep at all). I used to be an owl for years--decades. A regular 9-5 schedule seemed out of reach.…

I tried melatonin, among other things, years back, but it wasn't until I became very mindful of light pollution past 9pm that I saw a huge correction in my terrible sleep patterns. Never even heard of that goggle trick, fascinating.

I minimize all of the blue light in my place though I am left wondering if just minimal light is the most important part.

Turn all the lights off, a few nightlights, a computer monitor (flux or better), and a dim tablet seem to do the trick.

Re: Melatonin

#168

Post by polshaw »

thenomad wrote: post #121
robhu wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy melatonin online in the UK from Biovea http://www.biovea.com/uk/product_detail.aspx?NAME=MELATONIN-...

Interesting! Any idea how they get around the legal issue?

It is legal to import prescription-only medicine into the UK, providing it does not have a higher level of scheduling too.

Re: Melatonin

#169

Post by polshaw »

I'm disappointed to see no comments here whatsoever that are addressing one of the central (and AFAICT unsupported) claims of this article-- that regular melatonin use can reduce the amount of sleep needed by almost an hour.

I have no doubts that melatonin is very useful for getting to sleep quicker, but if the reduced sleep claim is accurate, then it may move from an occasional use when needed, to a default use.

There are many melatonin users here- any regular users care to share their feelings/anecdotes (or better!) on this?

Re: Melatonin

#170

Post by gwern »

pesenti wrote: post #72
thebooktocome wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, it's not a "limited number of hand-selected studies." The Brzezinski meta-study ( http://www.gwern.net/docs/melatonin/2005-brzezinski.pdf ) alone covered 17 studies and 284 participants. There's even a clear, well-documented causal mechanism, which can't be said for most of the supplement industry. Even if it were a limited number of studies, gwern's not going for "absolute confidence". (Indeed, requiring "abs…

And how do you claim to calculate expected value here? You are making the same error he is by ignoring the possible "black swan", which, with every drug, can have dramatic consequences. A positive but cautious conclusion like http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/m... would have been much more appropriate.

> You are making the same error he is by ignoring the possible "black swan", which, with every drug, can have dramatic consequences.

The black swan is a pretty useless concept at this point, because people like you will drag it out against anything they dislike. You cannot give any rigorous formulation or evidence for it, and the best you can do is drag out some old example like thalidomide.

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