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The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

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Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#51

Post by dannyr »

sfall wrote: post #30
dannyr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Google do that? They would be helping another rival platform get market share. Google is releasing iOS apps because there's no way Apple is going away soon.

while google loves android, they live off traffic, if it comes from android, ios, windows, etc they don't care they built google apps for all those platforms

If Google only cares about traffic, it would have certified Amazon and the Chinese Android clones.

I don't think we're contradicting each other though.

Google will go where the users are but I doubt it would help out OS gain a foothold that would threaten the Android ecosystem.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#52

Post by MikeCapone »

the_bear wrote: post #44
crazygringo wrote: post #28

> ...how difficult consumer services were going to continue to be for them if they insisted on perfection before release. I still think of this every time I use Dropbox instead of iCloud... There's a big difference between startups iterating, and giants like Apple. I think we all remember how they were excoriated on the Maps release, which certainly wasn't perfect. Because of their scale, Apple doesn't have the kind…

Isn't the author comparing Google's approach to Apple's? Google has more market share than Apple in just about every software category, so if Google can iterate, than why can't Apple? I think it has more to do with Apple's marketing. Every time they release even the most trivial improvement they tout it as being amazingly innovative. They also charge premium prices. This creates an expectation with their users that e…

People pay for Apple products, so they expect something that works well and looks good.

The switching costs are also much higher with hardware than software. You don't want to pay for a phone and find out it's half-baked, while if a 'free' web service doesn't work, it's easy to switch.

It's also about branding and culture, people expect different things from each company. That has pros and cons.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#53

Post by bpyne »

dannyr wrote: post #11
replicatorblog wrote: post #7

I wonder if this notion that Apple needs to "get" web services to survive will really matter in the long run? It's the conventional wisdom, just like that they "lost" the PC wars even though they've been the most profitable PC maker for a decade now. There haven't been many web services that have lasted for a decade or more in a dominant position. Might Apple's best long term strategy to... 1. Support/innovate the he…

Look at people's IPhones. A lot of its users use apps not built by Apple. Search, Mail, Social Network, Maps, Photo-sharing, etc. Yeah, Apple will always make tons of money but IPhone/IPad will become just a device that hosts these apps. If most of the apps people need are available in another platform, the costs of switching is going to be low.

The assumption is that the integration of those apps into use-patterns closely enough resembles what they do on the iPhone/Pad. The reality is that it's mostly people who have a predilection towards experimenting with technology who will switch. I doubt that user group makes up more than a few percent of the consumer market.

Apple, I'm sure, studies price patterns and knows well how far up they can push a price without losing the core of their market.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#54

Post by MikeCapone »

rohansingh wrote: post #46
badman_ting wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point, and Maps is a good example. Apple's whole image is around "it just works", so things are expected to just work. "If you're not embarrassed by it, you waited too long to release it" doesn't really work in Apple's case.

I actually don't think Maps is a good example. I'd argue that Apple wouldn't have taken such heat and criticism if they'd launch Maps as an independent app, worked to iterate and improve it, and then baked it into iOS as a Google Maps replacement when it was good and ready.

It's very likely that their hand was forced by Google's contract renewal.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#55

Post by MikeCapone »

toadi wrote: post #36
diydsp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is in the position Sun Microsystems was 20 years ago. They supplied finished, working solutions, which were really "just" high-quality versions of what the other guys did. Eventually, services got so widespread (Lintel) that customers got less picky and Sun's peculiar quality didn't matter anymore. However, that won't be how Apple will die out (if they do...), because there is already a huge market of people wi…

Difference between apple and sun is that apple is a consumer product. Companies make cost effective decisions. Consumers emotional factors.

The big difference is that in the enterprise the people who buy the products and the people who use the products are different. In consumer products, they are same, and so the details and the user experience matter.

A lot of the stuff that the enterprise does would be fatal in the consumer business.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#56

Post by deepinsand »

dannyr wrote: post #11
replicatorblog wrote: post #7

I wonder if this notion that Apple needs to "get" web services to survive will really matter in the long run? It's the conventional wisdom, just like that they "lost" the PC wars even though they've been the most profitable PC maker for a decade now. There haven't been many web services that have lasted for a decade or more in a dominant position. Might Apple's best long term strategy to... 1. Support/innovate the he…

Look at people's IPhones. A lot of its users use apps not built by Apple. Search, Mail, Social Network, Maps, Photo-sharing, etc. Yeah, Apple will always make tons of money but IPhone/IPad will become just a device that hosts these apps. If most of the apps people need are available in another platform, the costs of switching is going to be low.

Isn't the prevailing argument in the industry that vertical integration is necessary for great customer experience?

On Android, I sign in ONCE with my @gmail address and everything is instantly configured.

Another great example is Google Now. That feature is very deeply tied into the Android UI and possible because Google owns the services.

I'm not saying you can't get "good enough" without owning the services, but I think you can provide greater value if you do.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#57

Post by modfodder »

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #47
modfodder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe those applications are half-baked as much as your needs are more advanced than the target of those applications. Those applications work extremely well for the typical mac user. Firefox would just confuse my sister, and she wouldn't even know what an NFS server is. Linux would just make her stop using a computer. And how is iChat half baked because you use Gmail chat? I could say the same for Gchat wh…

In re-reading my post, yeah, I guess it's a little "power user" centric. You're right in that most people wouldn't be comfortable with Linux, an NFS server, or even R. I think the point I should have made was that I don't find a lot of the apps to be that useful because there are good web equivalents (mail, chat, docs, etc.) and I don't find the other apps that compelling. I would suspect, even being the "power user"…

My sister probably would have trouble finding and installing firefox, and then wouldn't get more out of it than she would Safari. I'm not sure what websites you have problems with, but I can't remember the last time I had Safari crash on me (anecdotal I know, plus I bounce back and forth between Safari and Chrome).

And I agree that there are better versions of Apple's free software, but it's free, and does exactly what it should, which is lubricate the novice user's experience. Once you pass novice, it's easy to go find software that fulfills your needs.

And I would disagree that most other people are of the same opinion. My guess is that you live in a bubble of mostly experienced computer users (as do most of us on HN). Go spend a day at an Apple store somewhere besides the Bay area and you'll see most of the people that make up the bulk of Apple's user base. They, like my sister, probably don't even know there are other options out there (some are using iPad and iPhones, sure, but plenty are still using iMacs and Macbooks).

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#58

Post by codelust »

Going through the comments (and most of the HN comments on platforms that tend to divide people), I still find it deeply distressing that even geeks/nerds chase hard after the one-true-way approach. You don't see one true type of bread, you don't see one true type of car, you don't see one true type of anything. Yet, when it comes to things like mobile phones and platforms, we behave like absolute twerps.

People have different circumstances, levels of understanding and fifty to the power of three other factors that determine their choices in life. We want to ignore all of that and dismiss every person who does not see the same merits that we do. And that is sad beyond what can be expressed in words.

Can you imagine in a world in which it makes sense to have both the Apple and Google approach? If you cannot, you should step out and see a lot more of the real world. Choices, no matter how disagreeable or flawed, are welcome in a more open world. I hope we will all, eventually, understand that, even if we don't like what that understanding allows for.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#59

Post by sejje »

MikeCapone wrote: post #54
rohansingh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't think Maps is a good example. I'd argue that Apple wouldn't have taken such heat and criticism if they'd launch Maps as an independent app, worked to iterate and improve it, and then baked it into iOS as a Google Maps replacement when it was good and ready.

It's very likely that their hand was forced by Google's contract renewal.

Doesn't seem to change his point.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#60

Post by what_ever »

MikeCapone wrote: post #52
the_bear wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the author comparing Google's approach to Apple's? Google has more market share than Apple in just about every software category, so if Google can iterate, than why can't Apple? I think it has more to do with Apple's marketing. Every time they release even the most trivial improvement they tout it as being amazingly innovative. They also charge premium prices. This creates an expectation with their users that e…

People pay for Apple products, so they expect something that works well and looks good. The switching costs are also much higher with hardware than software. You don't want to pay for a phone and find out it's half-baked, while if a 'free' web service doesn't work, it's easy to switch. It's also about branding and culture, people expect different things from each company. That has pros and cons.

Just staying with the Google example, I don't remember any major Google product having a major failure. The new Google Maps may be. I know many people complain about the new GMail but it's just about choices of design they made and not about some bugs in the product. So again, Google products are iterative and not buggy irrespective of whether people pay for them or not.
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