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The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

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Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#31

Post by jfb »

dannyr wrote: post #21
replicatorblog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but I'd be surprised if Google didn't port their apps over to this imaginary platform. My larger point is that now that a rich UI is becoming a commodity, non-software/platform factors will become increasingly important e.g. manufacturing, distribution, etc.

Why would Google do that? They would be helping another rival platform get market share. Google is releasing iOS apps because there's no way Apple is going away soon.

Google is releasing iOS apps because they make money from traffic. Android has served its purpose -- preventing Google from getting frozen out of mobile computing traffic. Chrome is the future brand for Google in the human software world.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#32

Post by badman_ting »

crazygringo wrote: post #28

> ...how difficult consumer services were going to continue to be for them if they insisted on perfection before release. I still think of this every time I use Dropbox instead of iCloud... There's a big difference between startups iterating, and giants like Apple. I think we all remember how they were excoriated on the Maps release, which certainly wasn't perfect. Because of their scale, Apple doesn't have the kind…

Good point, and Maps is a good example. Apple's whole image is around "it just works", so things are expected to just work. "If you're not embarrassed by it, you waited too long to release it" doesn't really work in Apple's case.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#33

Post by modfodder »

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #26
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does plenty of iteration, just in a different way. Think about copy and paste on iPhone, MMS messaging, multitasking, etc. They work depth-first rather than breadth, so instead of dozens of half-working features, you get one or two complete features. I think it opens Apple up to more criticism, especially combined with their secrecy, but the criticism and even trolls only help contribute to more buzz.

I'm looking at the Dock at the bottom of my MacBook Pro and I can't help but think that most of the apps are half baked and most of them I don't even use. I've replaced Safari with Firefox. I haven't fired up iChat in a while because I just use GMail chat instead. iTunes is really wonky when you want to play music off of an NFS server. I've never fired up FaceTime or PhotoBooth. The X11 app is so buggy it's ridiculou…

I don't believe those applications are half-baked as much as your needs are more advanced than the target of those applications. Those applications work extremely well for the typical mac user. Firefox would just confuse my sister, and she wouldn't even know what an NFS server is. Linux would just make her stop using a computer.

And how is iChat half baked because you use Gmail chat? I could say the same for Gchat when I use iChat. (Not saying that ichat can't be improved, but your line of logic doesn't follow.)

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#34

Post by toadi »

crazygringo wrote: post #28

> ...how difficult consumer services were going to continue to be for them if they insisted on perfection before release. I still think of this every time I use Dropbox instead of iCloud... There's a big difference between startups iterating, and giants like Apple. I think we all remember how they were excoriated on the Maps release, which certainly wasn't perfect. Because of their scale, Apple doesn't have the kind…

Actually the premium prices paid for apple products makes me expect it's perfect. I'm nog going to pay for a beta product that improves at those prices!

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#36

Post by toadi »

diydsp wrote: post #25
replicatorblog wrote: post #7

I wonder if this notion that Apple needs to "get" web services to survive will really matter in the long run? It's the conventional wisdom, just like that they "lost" the PC wars even though they've been the most profitable PC maker for a decade now. There haven't been many web services that have lasted for a decade or more in a dominant position. Might Apple's best long term strategy to... 1. Support/innovate the he…

Apple is in the position Sun Microsystems was 20 years ago. They supplied finished, working solutions, which were really "just" high-quality versions of what the other guys did. Eventually, services got so widespread (Lintel) that customers got less picky and Sun's peculiar quality didn't matter anymore. However, that won't be how Apple will die out (if they do...), because there is already a huge market of people wi…

Difference between apple and sun is that apple is a consumer product. Companies make cost effective decisions. Consumers emotional factors.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#38

Post by smsm42 »

redthrowaway wrote: post #3

I really can't see Apple adopting a more iterative approach to product development. "Perfect the first time" is so deeply engrained in their corporate identity that the CEO feels the need to personally apologize when they don't achieve it (see: Apple Maps). Compare that to the new Google Maps, which was pretty shitty when it went to open beta but has been getting progressively less so. Google's users cut Google the n…

I'm not sure where this "perfect the first time" thing comes from, but so far every first version of the product I've seen from Apple was far from perfect. It is true that Apple spends a lot of time on visual design and polishing the limited set of scenarios to their complete satisfaction, but I don't think is can be called perfect.

For example, first version of iPhone OS did not have copy-paste functionality. On a device that has keyboard with keys sized 1/4 of my fingertip size. Now try getting a long URL or email from one app to another in this setup. Perfect? Yeah, right.

Another iOS thing - it gained multitasking (for apps other than select few) only in the 4th version. For years we've been told multitasking is evil - right up to the point when they got to make it usable and then it suddenly became newesest bestesest thing ever.

Now we can look at hardware. Macbooks are extremely popular, but I've personally seen a number of Macbooks dying at 2 years of age from exactly the same symptoms (failure of graphics subsystem). It's a reasonably nice piece of hardware, but perfect? No way. And it still doesn't have docking capability, after all these years.

And those are just random things, if I tried, I probably could list dozens of deficiencies in Apple products. Both first and current versions. It doesn't make them especially bad - all their competitors have their sets of faults - but let's not buy into the "perfect" hype too much.

So I can attribute this "perfect the first time" myth to a definite success of Apple marketing, but, unfortunately, there's little substance behind it.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#39

Post by gdilla »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #10
redthrowaway wrote: post #3

I really can't see Apple adopting a more iterative approach to product development. "Perfect the first time" is so deeply engrained in their corporate identity that the CEO feels the need to personally apologize when they don't achieve it (see: Apple Maps). Compare that to the new Google Maps, which was pretty shitty when it went to open beta but has been getting progressively less so. Google's users cut Google the n…

Apple does plenty of iteration, just in a different way. Think about copy and paste on iPhone, MMS messaging, multitasking, etc. They work depth-first rather than breadth, so instead of dozens of half-working features, you get one or two complete features. I think it opens Apple up to more criticism, especially combined with their secrecy, but the criticism and even trolls only help contribute to more buzz.

Definitely. And also, people have short term memories. No one will remember what didn't work after it eventually gets fixed. It becomes the new normal. One day, no one will care that Apple maps weren't great when they first debuted.

Re: The Time I “Interviewed” At Apple

#40

Post by calvin_c »

smsm42 wrote: post #38
redthrowaway wrote: post #3

I really can't see Apple adopting a more iterative approach to product development. "Perfect the first time" is so deeply engrained in their corporate identity that the CEO feels the need to personally apologize when they don't achieve it (see: Apple Maps). Compare that to the new Google Maps, which was pretty shitty when it went to open beta but has been getting progressively less so. Google's users cut Google the n…

I'm not sure where this "perfect the first time" thing comes from, but so far every first version of the product I've seen from Apple was far from perfect. It is true that Apple spends a lot of time on visual design and polishing the limited set of scenarios to their complete satisfaction, but I don't think is can be called perfect. For example, first version of iPhone OS did not have copy-paste functionality. On a d…

While the feature set may not have been perfectly filled, I think that you're highlighting areas where their 'perfect the first time' philosophy clashed with customer frustration. They hadn't figured out how to do copy/paste 'perfectly', so they didn't do it. Same with multitasking. While I agree, these things were not perfect even when they did launch, Apple has always preferred to leave out a feature than to push something out half baked. This is why they still haven't integrated NFC into the iPhone.
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