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Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

theguardian.com

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Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#121

Post by icegreentea »

gizmo686 wrote: post #55
Daishiman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would happen is that the rate of biodiversity drops drastically, and organisms that are simple and adaptable (like cockroaches, algae, jellyfich, certain classes of bacteria, small mammals, urban birds) adapt and thrive and consume the rest of the flora and fauna, and permanently adapt their environments making the situation extremely fragile for more complex and delicate birds and larger vertebrates. Also, the…

>organisms that are simple and adaptable I would be careful with the word simple. Adaptable is the important component, and that seems to be related more to being small and not particularly specialized. Simple sounds like a description of the amount of genetic data the species contains. It has been a while since I took biology, but if I recall correctly, even small and adaptable species have a lot of genetic data. Wh…

I think the better way to define simple is the number of "assumptions" an animal makes of its environment in order to survive/thrive.

Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#122

Post by ksrm »

jonnathanson wrote: post #24
rubyalex wrote: post #6

What does 300m years mean? Is that 300 or 300 Million?

I was confused by this, as well. Given the scale of geologic time, I'd assume they meant 300 million. But a single "M" often means thousand, especially if it's lowercase. So it's confusingly worded.

>But a single "M" often means thousand, especially if it's lowercase.

Where? I can find no reference to this.

Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#123

Post by ommunist »

This is one more 'climate change' BS. It does not stop fascinate me how self important climate change advocates are. Humans are not geological factor. Besides no one really have time machine to check validity of such claims. And we know very small about actual chemistry of the oceans, especially when it is deeper than SF beaches.

Disclaimer: I participated in research of lake sediments looking for insights about metal pollutant trends.

Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#124

Post by perlpimp »

moultano wrote: post #28

In a bit of cosmic irony, most fossil fuel was created from mass extinctions that accompanied changes in ocean chemistry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event

Very cool I guess we will have to adapt. As current Industrial Complex is too large and unwieldy to react to such thing.

Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#125

Post by ommunist »

perlpimp wrote: post #124
moultano wrote: post #28

In a bit of cosmic irony, most fossil fuel was created from mass extinctions that accompanied changes in ocean chemistry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event

Very cool I guess we will have to adapt. As current Industrial Complex is too large and unwieldy to react to such thing.

The Industrial Complex is far too small to be even considered among such players as Litosphere and Biosphere.

Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#126

Post by Gravityloss »

SCAQTony wrote: post #94

Let's presume it is all true. Gizmag quoted a study that 15-container ships (just 15) dole out the same amount of pollution as 760-million cars. (I shit you not): http://www.gizmag.com/shipping-pollution/11526/ God knows what coal and power plants produce but nonetheless, why does the IPSO and The Guardian have to scare the shit out of everyone instead of offering some sort of real, solution? If this is all true and…

The sulphur issue is already being solved, and a solution will be in place by january 1, 2015

http://www.imo.org/OurWork/Environment/PollutionPrevention/A...

This is because of the sulphur emission control laws that will come into action then. Basically, ships will buy scrubbers that clean the exhaust gases, buy low sulphur diesel, or change to a completely different fuel.

The emissions control areas, or ECA:s as they are called, inlude US coasts, the North Sea, the English Channel and the whole Baltic Sea.

This will cause massive cost increases in shipping. Expect your import goods to be expensive and export profits to be less. Yet it will save lots of lives.

Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#127

Post by ommunist »

enraged_camel wrote: post #65
hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that we would like to continue living in an environment similar to what we evolved in, and we would like to continue to have large amounts of bio-diversity and biological services available on a timeline that is useful to us. I'm adept of the view that the environment influences the organisms as much as organisms influence their environment, or rather that there isn't a clear distinction between envi…

It is sort of incredible that on one post you admit to knowing little about the subject, and then on the next you make authoritative (albeit unsurprisingly asinine) arguments such as "it's unrealistic to expect the environment to stay the same, and we should just treat these events as normal and see if we adapt or go extinct."

Dude, climate always changes. But humans have nothing to influence it in any significant way. All climate change research is paid by cunny people who create carbon quota trade market out of thin air, and seek political control in their own coutries.

Did the US signed the Kyoto Protocol, I wonder.

Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#128

Post by ommunist »

saalweachter wrote: post #108
waps wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with him : your belief that it's possible for humans to keep our environment constant over significant time frames is what's ridiculous. You're turning around the argument. He's not suggesting anything insane, you are. You're defending Disney reality (poor little animals ! We must help !) against the idea of evolution (adapt or die ? Can't adapt by the thousands ? Too bad). Guess which one is going to win in…

What do you consider "significant time frames"? 10 years, 1000 years, 100,000? If human activity is destabilizing the environment (ie, we have burned an amount of carbon which is suspiciously congruent with the amount of excess carbon in the atmosphere/oceans) why is it unreasonable to expect human activities to provide a similar amount of stabilization, even if greater amounts exceed our grasp?

I gave you point because you asked the right question about the timeframe.

Consider it 12000-28000 years. Because this is timeframe between quite regular Ice Ages. And any tech-based civilization is wiped by serious icing event. Its inevitable. Thus it is not hypothetical global warming you shold be afraid of, but global cooling. And it is right about to start. Your grand-grand-grandson must get a skill of flintcnapping from you, not server administration, or stock brokerage, if ou want him live.

Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#129

Post by ommunist »

randomfool wrote: post #106
hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #30

The short-term scenario is not good, but from the little I know about aquatic biology/chemistry, it might not be as catastrophical as the article pictures it. Increased CO2 levels should just cause algae/cyanobacteria blooms, which will balance CO2/O2 levels back again and foster primary consumers (solving over-fishing as a bonus). Also, H2CO3 gets buffered by all the Ca/Mg content in the ocean, so I don't think it's…

I live in Seattle and in just the past few years, beaches which used to be absolutely covered in oysters are now barren because of acidification. And by covered, I mean you need a path through them to walk (they are sharp), and the most difficult thing when picking them was to pick up a single one rather than cluster. This was on the Hood canal for anyone in the area. http://apps.seattletimes.com/reports/sea-change/2…

Local insignificant event.

Re: Ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

#130

Post by DanBC »

ommunist wrote: post #127
enraged_camel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is sort of incredible that on one post you admit to knowing little about the subject, and then on the next you make authoritative (albeit unsurprisingly asinine) arguments such as "it's unrealistic to expect the environment to stay the same, and we should just treat these events as normal and see if we adapt or go extinct."

Dude, climate always changes. But humans have nothing to influence it in any significant way. All climate change research is paid by cunny people who create carbon quota trade market out of thin air, and seek political control in their own coutries. Did the US signed the Kyoto Protocol, I wonder.

Cognitive dissonance is a fascinating area of research.

It's amazing to me that people can believe, utterly, such obvious tripe. "All climate change research is paid by cunny people who create carbon quota trade market out of thin air, and seek political control in their own coutries."

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