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Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

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Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#31
post #10

the real deep thinkers, are not necessary good at conversation I believe, actually there is a saying "the _real_ smart people don't speak much, and they usually look dumb" sorry I did not bother to read the article, the title stopped me from reading it.

Way to absolve of having any real credibility and/or value in your statement by appending "I did not bother to read the article".

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#32
post #5

I don't know whether this is true, but it feels true, and I've been operating as if it were.

FWIW language gives children a tool with which they can discuss and more importantly reason about abstract concepts. The sooner you acquire a rich and varied vocabulary the sooner you can form a rich understanding about the phenomena in the world around you. Since kids learn fastest when they are young and that slows with age, a strong grasp of language means that they can absorb and understand more abstractions sooner. Measures of betweenness, distance, centrality and distance for nodes in a child's mental graph of abstractions are all likely to be better when you have a richer vocabulary at a young age. Even edges between abstractions can be linguistic abstractions like similes and metaphors, giving a child a quickness in recall of well understood abstractions to aid in the processing and understanding of novel concepts.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#33
post #9
post #5

I don't know whether this is true, but it feels true, and I've been operating as if it were.

C.f. the cited book by Hart & Risley, Meaningful Differences In The Everyday Experiences of Young American Children. "The more parents talked to their children, the faster the children's vocabularies were growing and the higher children's IQ test scores at age 3 and later. [...] [By age 4], an average child in a professional family would have the accumulated experience with almost 45 million words, an average child i…

That's interesting, but I think there are also studies that show childhood IQ tests don't correlate very well to adolescent or adult IQ tests - which, as others studies have shown, are tests that do correlate well to success/happiness/etc. over lifetimes.

This study would be a lot more interesting if it followed its sample into adulthood and compared IQ scores over time - it very well may do that, it's just not clear from the article that there is very much meaning here when put into context with other studies on childhood IQ.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence is a mixture of upbringing and genetics. If you're raised by a pack of wolves in the woods, you'll probably be rock dumb by all measures, regardless of your DNA.

> If you're raised by a pack of wolves in the woods, you'll probably be rock dumb by all measures, regardless of your DNA. Depends on how you define "dumb". I bet you'd be insanely good at hunting and eating enough prey to survive the winter.

Going a step further, you have to wonder if the genetic correlates of IQ (or g) affect survival and health in feral children.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#35
Despite the fact that it may be "well established within academic circles", there is no actual evidence for the contention of the article - even within the article. In particular, for the study they mention, "The full results haven’t been published yet". It's no more than wishful thinking and a convenient hypothesis.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence is a mixture of upbringing and genetics. If you're raised by a pack of wolves in the woods, you'll probably be rock dumb by all measures, regardless of your DNA.

> If you're raised by a pack of wolves in the woods, you'll probably be rock dumb by all measures, regardless of your DNA. Depends on how you define "dumb". I bet you'd be insanely good at hunting and eating enough prey to survive the winter.

[deleted]

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#37
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C.f. the cited book by Hart & Risley, Meaningful Differences In The Everyday Experiences of Young American Children. "The more parents talked to their children, the faster the children's vocabularies were growing and the higher children's IQ test scores at age 3 and later. [...] [By age 4], an average child in a professional family would have the accumulated experience with almost 45 million words, an average child i…

That's interesting, but I think there are also studies that show childhood IQ tests don't correlate very well to adolescent or adult IQ tests - which, as others studies have shown, are tests that do correlate well to success/happiness/etc. over lifetimes. This study would be a lot more interesting if it followed its sample into adulthood and compared IQ scores over time - it very well may do that, it's just not clear…

The study was primarily looking at language acquisition, not IQ. The researchers themselves did find that language mediated IQ somewhat, but IIRC the effects weren't especially noteworthy. I haven't read the book in a while though, so I can't remember the exact details.

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#39
post #10

the real deep thinkers, are not necessary good at conversation I believe, actually there is a saying "the _real_ smart people don't speak much, and they usually look dumb" sorry I did not bother to read the article, the title stopped me from reading it.

>I did not bother to read the article This is probably why you're not a 'real think er', and no I don't really agree with the article either.

Hmm i did not mean i am a deep thinker,just put on my quick thoughts after reading all the comments here,at least i dont down vote others by assumption

Re: Children aren't born smart. They're made smart by conversation

#40

Saying "Children aren't born smart" is equivalent to saying "Intelligence is determined entirely by one's environment", if I understand the claim correctly. While I'm sure talking to ones children contributes in a massively positive way to their IQ, I think it's extremely inaccurate and ignorant to the existence of real-world outliers to claim that it's the only factor. To provide just one example (out of many, I'm s…

This is a useless nitpick. It's not a scientific treatise, it's a public service message to try to change people's behavior.

I don't believe for a second that the doctor believes that intelligence has no inherited component whatsoever. She is dealing with a problem in the real world using what tools she has at her disposal.

Edit: Responding jamesaguilar's and true_religion's point about the title. Yes, that's true. I had just read the article and the title wasn't in the forefront of my mind. But when you get a title like that, you simply can't know whether it is meant as a bald statement or rather as something to pique the interest (or as link bait, if you aren't feeling charitable). So, if you elect to click the link, read the article to find out!

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