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First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

newscientist.com

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Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#51

Post by dionidium »

bronbron wrote: post #42
Udo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not about those that live healthy lives as nightowls, but those that do not. Can we attenuate the differences among the owls to figure out why some are unhealthy and others are not. That's not what the article is suggesting, and attenuating differences to figure out the differences makes absolutely no sense, not even semantically. The attenuation of differences in this context means that the intent is to st…

> The attenuation of differences in this context means that the intent is to standardize the populace, nothing more, nothing less. > "Rosenberg suggests that people's work schedules should change to fit in with their natural sleep patterns" I realize there's some of what you're talking about going on here (e.g. the very next phrase mentioning that there's an 'easier way'), but I think there's far less intent than you…

Right, I mean, we can talk about large, ominous themes or we can talk about daily practicality. My boss wants me to come in around 9AM, more or less, but my body and mind want me to be awake from midnight to 4AM. That's sort of a problem. If a doctor can help, then I want that help.

The attenuation of differences in this context means that the intent is to standardize the populace, nothing more, nothing less.

It sounds to me like you came to this article with the feeling that owls are mistreated relative to larks and you're layering that previous sentiment over the article so that it says things to you that it doesn't literally say.

Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#52

Post by fusiongyro »

tokenadult wrote: post #39

The reported study doesn't deliver what the headline promises, because the study design doesn't show the direction of causation. A cross-sectional study with one date of observation of adult behavior, like this one, cannot show whether brain differences cause the sleep pattern differences, or whether the sleep pattern differences cause the brain differences. The human brain is reshaped and rewired by experience--that…

Exactly. They found a correlation, that's all. And a sample size of n = 50 is not huge.

Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#53

Post by dllthomas »

Udo wrote: post #10

All the data I have is anecdotal but here it is: I'm an owl. I do not experience worse sleep compared to normal people, and in my experience my sleep pattern seems to work better than most larks. The things the article attributes to owls are not problems I'm suffering from, but on the contrary some of my lark or normal friends do have them, including unusual tiredness during the day. I usually don't consume tobacco o…

When owls and larks need to work together for prolonged periods, it seems like the ability to "creat[e] environments in which those differences can be attenuated" would be handy. That doesn't imply that we need to be attenuating them in all circumstances.

Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#54

Post by Nursie »

MarcusVorenus wrote: post #37
weland wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter-anecdote: I also tried to shift from my extreme night owl schedule to something more reasonable, particularly due to social reasons. I struggled with it for four years -- including dietary change, workouts and alcohol abstinence, and eventually gave up. I managed to get myself into the lark schedule three or four times for various periods of time (2-3 weeks minimum, about 6-7 months in the longest streak) but…

Consider sleeping with the curtains open, your circadian rhythm is sure to shift to a lark schedule then.

Nonsense. As an owl I have no problem sleeping when it's light.

Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#55

Post by lfuller »

Udo wrote: post #10

All the data I have is anecdotal but here it is: I'm an owl. I do not experience worse sleep compared to normal people, and in my experience my sleep pattern seems to work better than most larks. The things the article attributes to owls are not problems I'm suffering from, but on the contrary some of my lark or normal friends do have them, including unusual tiredness during the day. I usually don't consume tobacco o…

While it's great that you experience no negatives from being a night owl, a personal anecdote like this cannot be considered alongside medical research.

With any research, findings apply to the majority of the population studied - if, for example, 1 in 10,000 people experience something different than the majority, that 1 person's anecdote does not mean that the research was incorrect.

In this case, it it appears from the results that the potential benefits of specialized treatment for those affected by sleep phase disorders outweighs the potential to offend or affront those people whose physiologies do not match the results of this study.

Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#56

Post by lfuller »

Udo wrote: post #35
kbajorin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've missed the point. This is not about those that live healthy lives as nightowls, but those that do not. Can we attenuate the differences among the owls to figure out why some are unhealthy and others are not. Furthermore, can we figure out the attributes that larks have, that on the whole seem to make them healthier than owls. Then, maybe we can adjust the lifestyles of the unhealthy larks to have them lead a h…

> This is not about those that live healthy lives as nightowls, but those that do not. Can we attenuate the differences among the owls to figure out why some are unhealthy and others are not. That's not what the article is suggesting, and attenuating differences to figure out the differences makes absolutely no sense, not even semantically. The attenuation of differences in this context means that the intent is to st…

In the quote you've chosen the researcher specifically says "on the whole".

Are you arguing that your physiology represents the whole of humanity? This may have enormous implications for cancer research and neuroscience if so - you should get in touch with your local research university.

Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#57

Post by shostack »

ChristianMarks wrote: post #49

I used to be an owl for years. A regular 9-5 schedule seemed out of reach. This May I changed my environment by filtering out blue light after 8PM. I use the following: 1. Inexpensive Uvex amber googles from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S0360X-Ultra-spec-SCT-Orange-Anti... Wear them at least an hour or two before bedtime. 2. I replaced most of the white compact fluorescent lights with amber compact fluorescent…

You seriously need to get F.lux. Totally free, works on multiple OS's, and shifts your color/brightness on your monitor throughout the day to more naturally mimic natural light. This means it starts blue and bright in the AM, and gets darker and more orange in the evenings. It can be pretty noticeable if you are away and come back to your screen, but if you are on it for extended periods you never even notice the shift.

http://justgetflux.com/

Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#58

Post by purplelobster »

Raphmedia wrote: post #48
LaGrange wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One word: sunlight.

Here in Canada, during the winter, I wake up at 6AM. I'm a bit of a early riser I guess. It's dark out. I end my work day around 4PM. The sun is already down, and it's dark. Being an early riser don't really help me get sunlight. That's my work schedule. I'm naturally a night owl. I prefer to work all night, but I can't. However, I'm also one of the few who doesn't care that we don't see the sun for month during wint…

Swedish here. I just hate the way things are set up, so that in the winter you practically don't get any sunlight at all. You go to work in the dark, work inside (not necessarily by a window) and then you go home in the dark. I would much rather shift the day so that the sun is up when I'm not at work. No wonder people get depressed.

Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#59

Post by ChristianMarks »

shostack wrote: post #57
ChristianMarks wrote: post #49

I used to be an owl for years. A regular 9-5 schedule seemed out of reach. This May I changed my environment by filtering out blue light after 8PM. I use the following: 1. Inexpensive Uvex amber googles from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S0360X-Ultra-spec-SCT-Orange-Anti... Wear them at least an hour or two before bedtime. 2. I replaced most of the white compact fluorescent lights with amber compact fluorescent…

You seriously need to get F.lux. Totally free, works on multiple OS's, and shifts your color/brightness on your monitor throughout the day to more naturally mimic natural light. This means it starts blue and bright in the AM, and gets darker and more orange in the evenings. It can be pretty noticeable if you are away and come back to your screen, but if you are on it for extended periods you never even notice the shi…

Forgot to mention it--I use it, but it isn't enough. For Android there is Twilight. The amber glasses are < $8 and are essential, in my experience.

Re: First physical evidence of why you're an owl or a lark

#60

Post by MarcusVorenus »

Nursie wrote: post #54
MarcusVorenus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider sleeping with the curtains open, your circadian rhythm is sure to shift to a lark schedule then.

Nonsense. As an owl I have no problem sleeping when it's light.

There's research supporting my claim:

http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2010/02/1...

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