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Programming is a Terrible Job

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Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#121
Oof, this guys has it bad.

The thing he doesn't consider is people like me, so let me flesh out that penultimate paragraph:

"If you like to build products that help solve problems in the real world, become a full stack web developer. If you like the delight that comes from encountering a user experience that has considered corner and edge cases and approached them in a unique or profound way, learn how to do the hacky shit that seems super boring or mundane to other people."

Programming is only terrible if you work on something you don't care about. I'm assuming that's his real point but it gets hung up on the day-to-day frustrations of web development in particular. It's pretty clear to me that web dev isn't his favorite coding discipline, but just because it's not his cup o tea doesn't mean others don't enjoy the shit out of it. I don't get how people can love being QA engineers but far be it for me to say its terrible.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#122
post #98

One of the author's frustrations, seeing months of work abandoned - is the byproduct of training programmers as scientists and engineers rather than designers...or rather it is the byproduct of a pedagogy which attempts to extend mathematical logic and proofs to messy social problems. Landing pages and NoSQL backends are not deductively better or worse: at best they are statistically or inductively so. Typically, how…

"Teach students the practice of coming up with three independent design schemes and developing each to the point that the merits and flaws of its underlying design concept is evident. Maybe one is worth developing." That seems like a good idea but then you would need software designers and programmers because what is good for one is not good for the other. We're no were near this becoming a reality.

The idea of developing multiple independent schemes comes from my background as an architect. I mention it on the off chance that it won't the discipline of software development as long to incorporate it as the 4500 years since Imhotep.

I'm optimistic because functional programming is already seen as an often viable alternative to bashing on an array - garbage collection is a useful abstraction outside the computer too.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a colleague once that wanted to invest 4-8 hours writing a script that would save her about 1 hour each time it is run. The script was expected to be ran about once a week. She did the wrong thing and asked her boss. "Not enough time, there's more urgent things to do." She then lost an hour per week, contributing to the general sense of urgency that she lived under. Of course, this wasn't the only such script s…

frankly, it sounds like she could have simply taken the initiative and wrote the script on her own time. seems like she could have simply done it over a weekend, and it would have been worth it if she truly felt that it would save her an hour per week.

That might be true - but she should do it only to prove that those kind of investments are worth it, and to gain trust from her boss/team.

I think programmers should be paid to not only do the crappy grunt-work, but also for automating it away, even though there will sometimes be cases where it turned out not to be worth it. To me, the automating is part of the job.

And sure, I remember when I used to think I could rewrite entire applications in a few hours the "right way", but that was pure inexperience on my part. For a junior dev, they might want to run it by someone more experienced, but otherwise, these kind of tangents can turn out to be some of the most valuable time spent on a project.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#124
Every job comes with pros and cons. I used to be a Chef - I loved cooking, but there's so much tedious work associated with it - prep work, inventory management, hiring/firing, etc...

Now I'm transitioning into the business world, and finance. I absolutely love trading stocks, and the thrill that comes with it (especially when you're on the winning end of a trade), but of course there's plenty of downsides too (reports, spreadsheets).

And of course, I write code for fun and to automate certain tasks, but even that can be tedious.

There really is no perfect job, but there are good ones. I think it's more important to maintain work-life balance than to be overly concerned about how much fun your job is...

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#125
Those jobs suck bad for him.

We don't all like the same things or find the same things interesting or dull. Some of us like the variety, just working on whatever a day throws up, tinkering with whatever to solves a problem a person or an organisation might have and make things a little bit better. Code which is never going to amaze or astound anyone, code that may have been written under horribly compromised circumstances, can still make a big difference to people, and for some people that in itself is satisfying.

Programming is many things, at one end an end in itself at the other a tool for doing stuff. Programmers find different elements of what programming can be interesting and / or fulfilling.

Yes, there are a whole bunch of programming jobs which are wiring up CRUD apps, or writing jobs to parse data. They're not satisfying for some people but that makes them a bad match for those people, it doesn't make programming terrible.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#126
Honestly, I can understand OP's frustration. I would be lying if I said I didn't think similar thoughts. But the truth is, you don't get do to what you want unless you're running your on company. Even if you are running your own company, you have to make sure you're doing the right thing in order to not go bankrupt.

I think having hobby projects can help provide a nice balance between doing whatever the hell you want and doing what is needed right now. It also gives you the opportunity to learn new things which you can maybe apply later to your actual job. As long as I have my favorite forever project, I won't be bored.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#127

  "Internet was a luxury in our struggling country"
Based on this, though nothing can be assumed, I can't help but wonder if the author was doing outsourced/offshored development work for another country?

I can only imagine that doing outsourced/offshored work brings with it an extra level of dehumanized drudgery.

I am a software engineer who typically works with small teams and/or small businesses. While the code-writing itself can be mindless CRUD work, and is almost never interesting on a theoretical level, solving actual problems for my users makes it worthwhile to a large extent. I am solving real problems for people trying to get through their days -- people I get to work with face-to-face. That's rewarding.

If you're doing mindless CRUD work for somebody five thousand miles and several levels of management away, though, that kind of rewarding feeling must rarely be possible. I don't know if I could do it.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#129
post #126

Honestly, I can understand OP's frustration. I would be lying if I said I didn't think similar thoughts. But the truth is, you don't get do to what you want unless you're running your on company. Even if you are running your own company, you have to make sure you're doing the right thing in order to not go bankrupt. I think having hobby projects can help provide a nice balance between doing whatever the hell you want…

protip: every job is like this. I went into journalism because i LOVED reading and writing. Making it a career sapped the fun out of it. Now i'm coding professionally. It's much more fun than the pressures of journalism, but I do find myself sometimes thinking "this was more fun when I did it just for the heck of it"

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#130
post #83

> Sometimes I also think if it would be different if I was born several decades earlier. Check out section 7.6 of Phil Greenspun's SITE CONTROLLER thesis http://philip.greenspun.com/research/tr1408/complete.pdf . It seems there has long been plenty of undesirable programming work (anyone for in-house COBOL?) but a BS in CS may have been a more reliable route to interesting work before the PC software industry.

I see no section 7.6. [EDIT: Section 6.6 looks potentially relevant to the conversation.]
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