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Programming is a Terrible Job

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Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#101

Post by theorique »

edw519 wrote: post #99

My advice would be - do not become a "software engineer". My advice would be - become a solver of other people's problems who happens to know how to develop software. This may sound like a futile exercise in semantics, but believe me, this subtle little shift in thinking has made all the difference... In order to escape OP's "boring as shit" programming life and have a ball turning nothing into something, one has to…

I suspect the customer can read this orientation as well.

When the customer perceives that the programmer's goals are aligned with his goals, he will be much more inclined to send that programmer work.

In contrast, the programmer who sees the customer as an ignorant philistine who "doesn't appreciate good design" or "doesn't understand what he needs" will drive customers away.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#102

Post by CodeGlitch »

Regarding the "specialization is more interesting" - I have the opposite opinion.

11 Years ago I starting in the video games industry, as a graphics-programmer. This meant I lived and breathed graphics-related topics. After about 6 years I could no longer take the tedium. I moved away from graphics into more general programming (in the same company) and found the variation really helped me get through the day. I've now left the games industry and couldn't be happier.

My suggestion is that if you are unhappy in your current programming role, learn some new stuff in your spare time and apply for a new job. At the end of the day, we do stuff that only a small % of the population can do. It's a skill that people are willing to pay you for, and you don't have to go down mines or anything :)

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#103

Post by rarw »

Turning one's passion into a job almost always has this result. Work is never as exciting as doing something for the sake of doing it because work always has a finite list of things that must be done even if you don't want to. It doesn't matter if you're a programmer or a rock star. The routine of having to do something you don't want to do, whether that be write tests or perform the same hit song every day for 20 years, sucks. The trick is to try and find a balance. Do the boring stuff to pay the bills but find/make time to work on something that you actually enjoy. Sure it's not exactly easy to do but once you get out of school/your parents house - that's life.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#104

Post by aestra »

antocv wrote: post #55
nicpottier wrote: post #32

There's a reason it is called work and not play. If work was always enjoyable, then they wouldn't need to pay you to do it. I think the author is delusional if he thinks any programming anywhere doesn't have large swaths of time that are a bit mind numbing. And my experience has been the programmers who think themselves 'above that' are the ones that provide the least value. Our job is not to program, our job is to c…

> If work was always enjoyable, then they wouldn't need to pay you to do it. Why do football players, musicians and movie actors get payed 1000x as much as the software engineers who made the technology to make possible their success? TV, Internet, radio, now all HD quality. So that some people can enjoy their work and earn millions while we who invent and produce the infrastructure should suck it up and call it work…

Wow. Who is to say every single professional athlete and musician and actor enjoys every single second of their career?

Athletes' bodies are taxed to the maxed. Most of the above are in the public light 24/7, they might feel unsafe and have to hire bodyguards. That's not something everyone is going to enjoy. These people work hard, sometimes long hours. They are on the road, sometimes away from their families for long periods of time. This might be an exciting life at first, but wears you down after a few years.

Your average working musician has a "day job" playing for weddings, churches, and corporate events anyway. Not the life of luxury you seem to imagine. They are spending their off time marketing, networking, and planning their next event.

Most actors don't "make it big" and spend most of their time auditioning for roles, networking, and spending time looking for more work. I know a actor. She actually quit and got a "day job" because of the unstable nature of the work. If you get a role, you're still working under a deadline, and you're still working under the authority of someone else. I've heard in an interview somewhere that TV actors can work up to 12 hours a day.

After all, while preparing for the Australian Open Serena Williams said "I don't love tennis today, but ... I've actually never liked sports."

What about the people who support the infrastructure that make your job possible? The people who get paid less than you. The people (probably immigrants) who work in farms and factories and slaughterhouses to bring you food? The cooks and servers in the restaurant. The workers in China who build your computer/computer parts.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#105

Post by doorhammer »

nicpottier wrote: post #64
antocv wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If work was always enjoyable, then they wouldn't need to pay you to do it. Why do football players, musicians and movie actors get payed 1000x as much as the software engineers who made the technology to make possible their success? TV, Internet, radio, now all HD quality. So that some people can enjoy their work and earn millions while we who invent and produce the infrastructure should suck it up and call it work…

> Why do football players, musicians and movie actors get payed 1000x as much as the software engineers who made the technology to make possible their success? Do you think their jobs are cake walks? You think football players really enjoy the training, really enjoy destroying their bodies on a weekly basis? You think musicians haven't toiled for years and years making no money at all before reaching the level where…

Seconded.

It reminds me of a quote from Muhammad Ali:

“I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'.”

Now I'm not going to say that every athlete or musician is like that, which is part of the point; reality generally defies generalizations, but I will say that discounting the work professional athletes put in is a bit narrow minded, regardless of any perceived pay-hardwork or pay-joy ratio.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#106

Post by avenger123 »

iSnow wrote: post #65
rfnslyr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the same at all. Comparing getting beaten vs getting beaten more is not the same as working in an air conditioned office vs a farm. To make any job "fun", I always have IRC and messages going so I can talk to people a lot of the time. Keeps the day exciting.

>I always have IRC and messages going so I can talk to people a lot of the time In a lot of software shops, you are not allowed to chat, use IM or even bring headphones (like here)

You know, I will give you that.

My experience and I would venture to say most of the comments are based on people working in North America (or a similar place).

I would say that likely you work for a company that is either based in India or another similar country. I can definitely see how they would treat software developers like a sweat shop.

And its tough as "change your job" doesn't readily apply.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#107

Post by ctdonath »

I object.

My story is very similar: teenager obsessed with programming, working with paltry early-days computers (Sinclair ZX-80, Apple II, TRS-80, etc.), writing Mersenne-prime & other such fascinating-but-obscure programs, got a $4/hr job writing dBASE II programs for an apple farm, way advanced in college, 20+ year career as a software engineer.

I don't think I ever caught myself writing code for my employer and thinking "hey, I really enjoy this".

Speak for yourself. I wrote lots of code for my employers thinking "hey, I really enjoy this". I love my job. Oh sure sometimes the situation gets hard/grinding/depressing, but that's what ANY job will do. On the whole I REALLY ENJOY PROGRAMMING AS A CAREER.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#108

Post by tilsammans »

xinn wrote: post #3

I felt the same way. I quit. I'm still unemployed. I will admit the job I had wasn't nearly as dreary, but I was still plagued by the fact that what I was doing was utterly pointless and had zero value. In retrospect, I wish I had just grown the fuck up and accepted the simple fact that the chances of any person on this earth making his or her life meaningful outside of his or her own family are astronomically slim.…

I dunno. Quitting pointless jobs is still a net positive if you see the bigger picture I think. Pointless jobs should not be done and the fewer people willing to put up with it, the better. Bosses dealing out pointless jobs will soon learn to either raise pay or solve their problem differently. Sure, sucks when you're longing for that pay check but overall I commend people doing what you did.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#109

Post by Supermighty »

avenger123 wrote: post #93
Supermighty wrote: post #84

I've felt this way before. Dejected that the my new job wasn't an exciting candy land of save-the-day hacks and movie montage of elegant code spanning the screen. My expectations were too high. I thought we would always do the right thing to kick out software all grown up ready to take on the world. When the realization set in I got angry. First at the job then at myself. I held it tight knowing someone was to blame.…

I really agree with your sentiments here. I would say that if you work on a very large scale system with an explicit way of how things are done and there is extreme rigidity in doing anything differently than the job gets tedious quite fast. I would venture to say that most developers do not fall into this category and have more autonomy (even if that is just building a CRUD web app). Most code isn't peer reviewed an…

It took me a longer time than I liked to realize that the end user didn't care at all. To them it was magic and they just want it to work. And you're right, most shops don't care how it's coded either. Once I realized that it gave me some freedom to once again enjoy my work. I still get frustrated from time to time, but at least I know why and can shift my thinking when I realize I'm headed down a negative path.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#110

Post by hipsters_unite »

pilif wrote: post #47

Of course the day job isn't always fun. That's why it's a job and that's what we get paid for. But: I f'ing love my job as a programmer. There is nothing in this world that I'd rather do. There's nothing that constantly fills me with as much joy as programming does. I admit that I might be a bit lucky here, having founded the company I'm working for; that allows me to pick my battles and find a good balance between s…

Totally agree, I've done other jobs that are so many orders of magnitude worse than programming that it doesn't bear thinking about. For all its flaws, coding rocks as a career.
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